....................... Levin ....................................... Leaven ........
;-)
Posted on 08/13/2004 9:36:00 AM PDT by IdaBriggs
Hello. I am hoping you can help me.
I am trying to "reach out" to your side of the world in an effort to help each side understand the other. I apologize in advance if I offend or upset any of you, because that is NOT my intention. I hope by putting my "real name" on this post, you will view what I am about to say in the sincere way I mean it.
I am somewhat frightened of you.
Again, I apologize if I am offending, but I thought you should know about it. I also know I am not alone in my feelings about you because I have talked with other people who feel the same way. We think you are trying to impose your religion and way of life on the rest of us.
I know most of you are good people. You are kind and generous with your friends, family and neighbors. You help strangers change tires, work as teachers, risk your lives in the service of others -- all things everyone admires, respects and honors. Those of us on "the other side" do the same thing.
But sometimes you talk in painful ways about “evil” as if to associate us with "demons" and "satan" because we don't agree with your path. That is very hurtful, and it makes us feel like you don't really see us as fellow human beings with different understandings of God. I am a gardener by hobby, and not always a very good one. My husband likes to tease me about "killing plants" instead of growing them because sometimes I over water or put too much fertilizer on them, yet every year I keep trying, and gradually, my garden is starting to become beautiful. I love roses in particular, and am reminded every day how wonderful God is because He made so many different kinds – I have three different red roses alone, and each one is perfect! I have seven different colors of Petunias, and use them to explain how God loves people of all colors to my neighbor's children. I guess that is why I believe you, who scare me so, really do have love in your hearts for all of us, even though sometimes it doesn't seem that way.
The worst times are when the topics of Abortion and Gay Sex come up. No one would ever force you to have an Abortion or indulge in Gay Sex in America EVER, yet you persist in making these topics of conversation as if they trump all other considerations. The only way I can reconcile this with a rational viewpoint is if I think you believe you are trying to SAVE those who don't believe the way you do from Hell. This seems to be a very loving action on your part, but feels rude and controlling in a not-positive way to the rest of us. Many of us do not believe these things will result in eternal damnation, but are simply part of God’s plan for each individual.
If you are truly horrified by the thought of these things, I don’t know what to say to make it easier for you to understand, but I will still try. I guess it would be like making everyone not wear jewelry or make up because some churches believe adornment is demonstrating vanity; it may end up being something we are all judged by, but it may also simply be a misreading or misinterpretation of the text. I am not saying your adherence to the tenets of your faith is wrong; I am saying other people have a right to love God in their own ways, and our civil laws should not be about defining “sin” but crime.
I say again, I am not meaning to offend. I have a very strong faith in God, and trust him to do the right thing. I don't like hearing people say that God is judging all of America based on who is President; both men have qualities worthy of admiration at some level, and both are interviewing for the job of enforcing our constitution. It demands we keep church and state as separate institutions so that we don't have wars in this country over religion (like they do in Ireland with Catholics and Protestants or in Iraq with Sunni's and Shiites). It demands I respect your right NOT to have an abortion if you don't want one, and NOT to indulge in gay sex if you don't want to, and to follow the teachings of your faith in the way you best understand them. It demands we all work "for the common defense, promote the general welfare and ensure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity" and on behalf of that, I am reaching out to you to find out how we can frame the debates on these things without heaping scorn and shame upon each other. No matter what the results of the November 2, 2004, election, I personally want all Americans to be proud of our country, and the way we run it.
I know I am already.
In Humble Sincerity, Ida M. Briggs
Not pertinent to me. I could care less. I believe in redemption!
If she wants a civil conversation, I'm up for it. She's just confused on things from what I read.
Sorry ma'am, but the help you need comes in the form of 3 hrs of Hannity a day.
He posts like that a lot. Maybe you aren't familiar with him.
I hear Hannity has a book
Please see my post #35. Many people are asking this question.
>some selfish woman doesn't want to be inconvenienced. Sorry if I offend.
I abhor what is happening in China, and strongly believe this is an example of wrong doing. FORCING people to abort is NOT the same thing as allowing people the option, if they so choose. And I'm not offended, because I want to hear you, but I don't think its always about "convenience."
Ok, read his quote as if we're talking in 1804. When it was very legal.
Something along these lines came up on a thread earlier today.
Why is it that the homosexual lobby is always kvetching about the "privacy of their bedrooms" when they, themselves, are putting their beds smack dab in the middle of the public square? I do not go door to door throughout my neighborhood, asking others about their sexuality. I don't need to. Between the rainbow flags and the Gay Pride bumper stickers, homosexuals are freely giving up their right to privacy.
I like your post 79.
That is non-sensical logic.
abortion is the human taking of a human life.
a Miscarriage is just that, an accident or an ill-fated birth. This is no more murder than a traffic accident is.
If you are putting abortion and miscarriage on the same definition level, then you are equating man with God and that is a major flaw in your logic.
Ida,
You have to believe that there is Moral absolutes...Right and wrong. There isn't any gray.
Jesus said,"a little levin, levins the whole loaf", Meaning even just a tiny bit of yeast in the dough will effect the whole loaf because yeast contaminated the contact point and then spreads through.
Being wrong just a little is still being wrong. The oppisite doesn't work for being right. You have to be 100% right.
If there are not Moral absolutes, then Hitler was right.
OK, but you do understand that when it was legal for some human beings to hold other human beings in bondage, it was also felt that the Declaration of Independence (with its language about "all men being endowed by their creator, etc") did not apply to slaves.
Slaves were, by definition, not "human beings".
Because, of course, that would have meant that those who held slaves were holding -- in bondage -- other human beings.
Now, of course, people who are pro-choice with reagrd to whether a woman should be allowed to hire a doctor to kill her unborn child point to the "fact" that aa fetus is not a human being.
But, of course, an fetus is a human being. Because if it is not a human being, what, then is it?
Just as the slave owners of old could not admit gthat they held other human beings in bondage, and so had to de-humanize their slaves, so those who support abortion as an option must de-humanize the victims of their notions.
Eventually, the notion that unborn children are human beings who do not deserve to be killed will become as wide-spread as the notion that Black people are human beings who do not deserve to be held in bondage.
My only regret is that it will take so long before we understand that correctly.
I guesth thithxty nine!
Taking up the mantle to crusade against the long dead Suffragettes isn't my cross to bear.
You are assumably correct, but it's neither here nor there at the moment.
So why would you deny those same rights to an unborn person?
For the abortion issue, please see my post #35. A lot of people are asking. As for Alzheimer's, you are touching a sensitive topic today, as I will be attending my Great-Aunt's funeral tomorrow at 11:00 a.m., and will be going to the viewing in a few hours. She had Alzheimers, but what killed her was the cancer no one knew about because she couldn't tell us about the pain until it was too late to treat. Despite my having different views on many topics than you, she was in no way an imposition, and was never treated as if she was.
I don't like hearing people say that God is judging all of America based on who is President...
I don't know where you heard that on FR (among other misconceptions), but that's not important. You are now here, I hope you enjoy your stay.
PS The type of learning which may occur here can sometimes be brutal.
5.56mm
I'll second the warning about giving out identifying details, you're not hard to track down in less than 15 minutes.
Ida, if taxes are cut the poor and old people will have more money in their pockets. Lock up criminals for full sentences and you have less crime. 7% of the population are repeat offenders. 45% of those who reoffend are on probation or parole. In 1991 the last stats available 13,200 men, women and children were slaughtered by some one on probation or parole. That's the population of a small town.
Throwing more money at the schools will not fix the problem of BAD teachers.
When we had 1 room schools the single usually female teacher had few resources to teach with. With a few books, slates a globe, some pencils she managed to teach the 3 R's to about 30-40 children. She fired the stove in the winter too. Older boys drew water from the well..and gasp they used out houses. Yet today's teacher with a class size of about 15-20, computers, calculators and a teachers aide can't seem to teach little johnny or janie to even read much less write.
The No Child Left Behind boosted educational spending 11%, over all Bush has increased education spending 40%. Ida it is NOT a lack of money for schools that is the problem.
Private schools for about $5,000 per pupil really educate a child. Yet government schools spend on average $7,000-10,000 per child and can't educate them. The difference is competition, if the private school fails to deliver they are out of business.
Bush has increased funding for enviroment protection too. But you don't hear that on the news do you?
Bush has recently signed into law 2 bills that will directly benefit minorities. 1 is for home ownership the other for small business ownership. Did you hear about those on the news?
Bush's cabinet has MORE minorities than Clinton's had. He's appointed MORE minorities to judgeships that Clinton did. Have you heard this on the news?
....................... Levin ....................................... Leaven ........
;-)
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