Posted on 07/07/2025 11:58:25 AM PDT by grundle
I asked Grok:
Fact check:
Compared to the 1950s, here are some things that are far, far better in 2025:
Average life expectancy.
Square footage of housing per person. Houses today are much bigger, but the number of people in each house is much smaller.
Number of bathrooms per person in each house.
Percentage of homes with air conditioning.
Number of dental cavities for the average 18 year old.
Percentage of the population that is vaccinated against polio and measles.
Percentage of the population that has indoor plumbing.
Percentage of the population that takes a daily shower.
Being able to watch any movie that you want, whenever you want.
Size of average TV screen.
Percentage of the population that owns a color TV.
Percentage of the population that works at a desk inside an air conditioned office, instead of outside in the hot sun doing manual labor.
Every single one of these things is far, far better today than in the 1950s.
(end of my question)
This is Grok’s response:
Below, I’ll fact-check each claim by comparing the 1950s to 2025, using available data and historical context. I’ll aim to be concise while addressing each point thoroughly, citing sources where relevant. All claims will be evaluated for whether they are “far, far better” in 2025 compared to the 1950s.
1. Average Life ExpectancyClaim: Average life expectancy is far better in 2025 than in the 1950s.
Fact-Check:
1950s: Life expectancy at birth in the U.S. was 68.2 years in 1950 (65.6 for males, 71.1 for females).
2025: Life expectancy in 2023 was 78.4 years (75.8 for males, 81.1 for females), with projections suggesting a slight increase or stabilization by 2025.
Analysis: Life expectancy has increased by about 10 years, a significant improvement driven by advances in medical care, vaccines, and public health. However, recent stagnation due to chronic diseases and socioeconomic factors slightly tempers the “far, far better” claim. Still, the increase is substantial.
Verdict: True, life expectancy is significantly better in 2025.
2. Square Footage of Housing per PersonClaim: Houses are much bigger, with fewer people per house, leading to more square footage per person in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: In 1950, the average new single-family home was ~1,000–1,200 square feet, with an average household size of ~3.37 people, yielding ~300–350 square feet per person.
2025: In 2015, the average new home was 2,687 square feet, with a median of 2,467 square feet, and household size dropped to 2.54. This results in ~971–1,058 square feet per person. Recent data suggests a slight decline in home size (e.g., 2,386 square feet median in 2018), but the trend of larger homes persists.
Analysis: Square footage per person has nearly tripled due to larger homes and smaller households, strongly supporting the claim.
Verdict: True, square footage per person is far better in 2025.
3. Number of Bathrooms per Person in Each HouseClaim: Number of bathrooms per person is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: Data is sparse, but homes typically had 1–1.5 bathrooms, with an average household size of ~3.37, yielding ~0.3–0.4 bathrooms per person. Many homes, especially older or rural ones, lacked full bathrooms.
2025: Modern homes often have 2–3 bathrooms, with new homes in 2015 averaging ~2.5 bathrooms for a household size of 2.54, yielding ~1 bathroom per person.
Analysis: The increase from ~0.3 to ~1 bathroom per person is a clear improvement, driven by larger homes and modern design standards.
Verdict: True, bathrooms per person are far better in 2025.
4. Percentage of Homes with Air ConditioningClaim: Percentage of homes with air conditioning is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: In the 1950s, air conditioning was a luxury; fewer than 10% of homes had it, with ~50% of new homes by the mid-1970s having AC.
2025: By 2015, 93% of new homes had central air conditioning, and ~87% of all U.S. households had some form of AC (central or window units) by 2020. This percentage likely increased slightly by 2025.
Analysis: The rise from <10% to ~90% is a dramatic improvement, making this claim accurate.
Verdict: True, the percentage of homes with air conditioning is far better in 2025.
5. Number of Dental Cavities for the Average 18-Year-OldClaim: Number of dental cavities for the average 18-year-old is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: Limited data exists, but dental care was less advanced, with minimal fluoridation and poorer oral hygiene practices. Studies suggest 18-year-olds had ~4–7 cavities on average, with higher rates of untreated decay.
2025: By 2011–2016, CDC data showed ~1.5–2 cavities (decayed, missing, or filled teeth) for adolescents aged 12–19, with fluoridated water, better dental care, and sealants reducing decay rates. This trend likely holds or improved slightly by 2025.
Analysis: A reduction from ~4–7 to ~1.5–2 cavities is a significant improvement, supporting the claim.
Verdict: True, dental cavities for 18-year-olds are far better in 2025.
6. Percentage of the Population Vaccinated Against Polio and MeaslesClaim: Percentage of the population vaccinated against polio and measles is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: Polio vaccine was introduced in 1955, with ~50% of children vaccinated by the late 1950s. Measles vaccine wasn’t available until 1963, so 0% were vaccinated in the 1950s.
2025: By 2020, ~93% of U.S. children (19–35 months) were vaccinated against polio, and ~92% against measles (MMR). Adult vaccination rates are lower but still significant. Rates may have slightly declined due to vaccine hesitancy but remain high.
Analysis: The jump from ~50% (polio) and 0% (measles) to ~92–93% is a massive improvement.
Verdict: True, vaccination rates for polio and measles are far better in 2025.
7. Percentage of the Population with Indoor PlumbingClaim: Percentage with indoor plumbing is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: In 1950, ~85% of U.S. homes had indoor plumbing, with rural areas lagging (some as low as 50%).
2025: By 2020, >99% of U.S. homes had indoor plumbing, with near-universal access in urban and rural areas.
Analysis: The increase from ~85% to >99% is significant, though the 1950s baseline was already relatively high.
Verdict: True, but the “far, far better” claim is slightly exaggerated due to the high baseline in the 1950s.
8. Percentage of the Population that Takes a Daily ShowerClaim: Percentage taking a daily shower is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: Limited data, but daily showering was less common due to fewer bathrooms, cultural norms (weekly baths common), and water access issues in rural areas. Estimates suggest ~20–30% showered daily.
2025: Surveys (e.g., 2020 YouGov) indicate ~60–70% of Americans shower daily, driven by more bathrooms, better plumbing, and changing hygiene norms.
Analysis: The increase from ~20–30% to ~60–70% is notable, supporting the claim, though cultural factors influence showering habits.
Verdict: True, daily showering is significantly better in 2025.
9. Being Able to Watch Any Movie Whenever You WantClaim: Ability to watch any movie whenever you want is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: Movie access was limited to theaters, with ~4–5 billion annual theater admissions. Home viewing was rare, with no VCRs or streaming.
2025: Streaming services (Netflix, Disney+, etc.) allow instant access to millions of movies. Over 80% of U.S. households have streaming subscriptions, and physical media (DVDs, Blu-rays) are widely available.
Analysis: The shift from theater-only to on-demand streaming is a revolutionary improvement.
Verdict: True, movie-watching availability is far better in 2025.
10. Size of Average TV ScreenClaim: Size of the average TV screen is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: TVs were ~12–20 inches (diagonal), with small, bulky CRT screens.
2025: Average TV screen size is ~50–55 inches, with some households having 65–85-inch screens, driven by affordable flat-screen technology.
Analysis: The increase from ~12–20 inches to ~50–55 inches is a dramatic improvement in size and quality.
Verdict: True, TV screen size is far better in 2025.
11. Percentage of the Population that Owns a Color TVClaim: Percentage owning a color TV is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: Color TVs were introduced in 1954, but only ~1% of households had them by 1959 due to high costs.
2025: Virtually 100% of TV-owning households (~95% of all households) have color TVs, with modern TVs exclusively in color.
Analysis: The rise from ~1% to ~95% is a clear improvement.
Verdict: True, color TV ownership is far better in 2025.
12. Percentage of the Population Working in Air-Conditioned OfficesClaim: Percentage working at desks in air-conditioned offices, rather than manual labor in the sun, is far better in 2025.
Fact-Check:
1950s: ~30% of jobs were in manufacturing, agriculture, or construction, often outdoors or in non-air-conditioned spaces. Office jobs were ~15–20%, with limited AC (est. <20% of offices).
2025: ~80% of jobs are in service or office-based sectors, with >90% of offices air-conditioned. Manual labor jobs are <10% of the workforce.
Analysis: The shift to office work and near-universal office AC strongly supports the claim.
Verdict: True, the percentage working in air-conditioned offices is far better in 2025.
Summary
All claims are true, with most showing dramatic improvements that justify the “far, far better” description. The only slight caveat is indoor plumbing, where the 1950s baseline (~85%) was already high, making the improvement to >99% significant but less “far, far” than others. Advances in healthcare, housing, technology, and work conditions have driven these changes, though socioeconomic disparities and recent health trends (e.g., obesity) warrant consideration.
If you’d like further details or specific data for any point, let me know!
(end of Grok’s response)
A Detroit assembly line job was the creame la creame of manufacturing jobs. Highest pay in country.
The size and amenities of the 1950s homes make them equivalent to a small 2 bedroom trailer today.
Also they bought their cars at cost.
No one said the 1950s salary was comfortable.
Do able.
It’s not grok, but I used copilot and got these (sorry for formatting on the move):
Here’s a side-by-side comparison of key social and economic indicators in the United States between 1955 and 2025, based on the most reliable available data:
Indicator 1955 2025
1. Taxes as % of Median Salary ~18% of income paid in combined federal, state, and local taxes ~28.4% average tax wedge for single workers
2. Victim of Theft or Violent Crime Lower reported rates; lifetime violent crime victimization ~20–25%4 ~25% of children live in single-parent homes, often linked to higher crime exposure; violent crime rates have declined since 1990s but remain elevated in some areas6
3. Median Age 28.98 years 38.5 years8
4. Average Daily Commute Time ~26.9 minutes one-way (est.) ~27.6 minutes one-way; ~53.2 minutes round trip11
5. Median Home Cost as % of Median Salary ~$18,400 home vs. ~$3,400 income → ~5.4× income ~$412,500 home vs. ~$59,428 income → ~7× income13
6. Single-Parent Households ~7% of children lived with one parent ~25% of children live with one parent
7. K–12 Teacher/Student Ratio ~26.9:1 in public schools ~15:1 national average16
8. High School Graduation Rate ~59% of 17-year-olds graduated ~85.3% nationally
9. College Graduation Rate ~25–30% of college entrants graduated (est.) ~64% of students at 4-year institutions graduate within 6 years【source pending】
10. Four-Year Degree Cost as % of Median Salary ~$1,000–$2,000 total tuition vs. ~$3,400 income → ~30–60% ~$100,000+ total cost vs. ~$59,428 income → ~170%+12
Saw a meme somewhere yesterday, in the 1950s a man could have a house, a car a stay at home mom and four kids on a Detroit assembly line salary.
People didn’t need as much stuff as in the 50s.
s/b
People didn’t need as much stuff in the 50s.
Personally, I loved it, thought it was a brilliant way to use Grok and read every word. I was raised in the 50’s and all the stories were my memories and my reality today. Well done, grundle.
Him: Now I've got feet
Her: and I've got feet
Both: Let's start to walk where the lovers meet.
Let's gooooooo, Time's a-wastin'!
Bigger houses today, bigger tv screens. Big deal.
In the 1950s we had a hollywood that protected moral values and produced mostly family friendly movies and tv shows.
An educational system that was the envy of the world. High school graduates could actually read and write.
A lower divorce rate. The family unit was celebrated.
A lower crime rate. Criminals were strictly and severely punished instead of coddled and death penalties were routinely carried out. Riots, shoplifting, open drug use, and defecating in the streets were not tolerated.
Men who wore dresses, worse, declared themselves to be female, were thrown into mental institutions where they belonged.
A higher reverence for God and the church.
Young people better respected clergy, their elders, and the authorities.
Financially, a man could afford a home, a car, wife, and kids on a single income.
Food we bought at the supermarkets were manufactured with mostly natural ingredients instead of a long list of chemicals.
I am just using the median home price and cost of living for a family of four in Michigan and standard ratios of salary to home price.
My personal situation is more than comfortable. Our second income is my wife’s salary as an ER doctor, which is entirely her play money.
Food we bought at the supermarkets were manufactured with mostly natural ingredients instead of a long list of chemicals.
And food was cooked from scratch. And the only electronic gadget for entertainment was a radio. And families generally only needed one car, if they even needed a car in the first place.
Thanks. Eye opening if true. I was raised in the 50s and I certainly showered every day and had air conditioning.
Fine. Here is the chorus from the number 2 song...
You’re takin’ me out of the ordinary
I want you layin’ me down ‘til we’re dead and buried
On the edge of your knife, stayin’ drunk on your vine
The angels up in the clouds are jealous knowin’ we found
Somethin’ so out of the ordinary
You got me kissin’ thе ground of your sanctuary
Shatter me with your touch, oh, Lord, return mе to dust
The angels up in the clouds are jealous knowin’ we found
The first verse of the number 3 song...
Solo, no mojo
I bounce back, no pogo
Unhappy, no homo
New brands, no logos
Money on my jugular, natural hustler
Think I need a smuggler up in Russia
You could be my butler, shine my cutla’
Shout out to Oyenda, that’s the guzzler
Okay, next thing, my life is a wet dream
I call it a sex scene, the back is a nice tease
I tried to escape, my life is a X-rate
I’m sorry, a sex tape, you only get one take
From the number 5 song...
Every time I hit the road, it takes a little piece of me
Kills me slowly (slowly)
When I needed you the most, you always gave me sympathy
Now you’re over me (over me)
Now you’re better on your own, it ain’t a f**kin’ mystery
You’ve been showing me
Now I’ve been burning up my home, baby
I’ve been burning up my home
Just for comparison, the lyrics from the number 1 song this day in 1955...
Oh Rose, my Rose Marie
Oh Rose Marie, I love you
I’m always dreaming of you
No matter what I do, I can’t forget you
Sometimes I wish that I never met you
And yet, if I should lose you
Would mean my very life to me
And in 1956...
Well, since my baby left me
I found a new place to dwell
Down at the end of Lonely Street
At Heartbreak Hotel
Where I’ll be, I’ll be so lonely, baby
I’ll be lonely
I’ll be so lonely, I could die
Today’s music is, by any measure, NOT better.
I did that. House, two cars, full time homeschooling stay at home mom, four kids, modest salary. Last kid is 26 years old so it wasn’t long ago.
We lived in modest homes, Still do. 1000 sq ft. cheap mortgage, we drove modest cars. we didn’t eat out much. I took my lunch to work 95% of the time.
Homeschooling is remarkably inexpensive, especially for the younger kids who re-use books. We didn’t have the newest of anything.
It’s amazing how much more money we make now that the kids are gone.
healthy food choices today are FAR, FAR better than in the 1950’s ... we were raised on foods like chicken fried in Crisco, margarine, bleached white bread, Jif “peanut butter”, baloney, Velveeta, “American” cheese, Miracle Whip, Cool Whip, mac and cheese from a box, frozen chicken pot pies, frozen tater tots, frozen breaded fish sticks, canned corn, canned green beans, ice milk, hotdogs, Kool-Aid, Fritos corn chips, Oreo cookies, and Tootsie Rolls, all chock-a-block with artificial colors, flavors and preservatives ... and i don’t think the word “organic” had even been invented yet ...
“Number of dental cavities for the average 18 year old.”
No kidding. Getting rid of fluoridification could be a bad thing.
.........
“Being able to watch any movie that you want, whenever you want.”
Is that really a plus? What about books read per year?
Amen. The more bathrooms you have means the lady of the house spends more time cleaning them. I learned that in an elective class I took in college...Effects of industrialization in the home. Same thing with vacuum cleaners and washing machines. People used to take their rugs outdoors, hang them on the line, and beat the crap out of them. And like washing clothes, people usually did that one day of the week, not every day, or as often as they do now. Blue Monday came from woman bluing their white sheets every Monday. Monday was always wash day. Wash machines sped up the process, but most people who have washers and dryers in their homes, do laundry more often and sometimes every day.
Wow!! Bigger TV's and color TV's. Couldn't they find anything other than that, that has made life better than in the 50's?
In the 50's, and 60's, there were department stores where you could try a dress on, or other clothing, coat or jacket before you bought it. You could feel the material to see if it would suit your needs. Same thing with purses, and other personal items. You can't do that anymore. You have to look at crap online with pictures, and not know what you're buying, or whether it will fit until it's shipped to you. Even buying decent shoes was a lot easier when stores like Thom McAn, Stride-Rite, Kinney's Shoes, etc., had actual stores. I miss those days.
"In my day we didn't need mooooovin' pitchures. There was just one show in town, and it was called 'STARE AT THE SUN!' You'd sit in the middle of an open field and stare up at the sun until your eyeballs burst into flames! Soon your head was on fire, and people were roasting chickens over it! And that's the way that it was and we liked it!"
“air conditioning”
I remember city streets in the NE US having elm canopies until the early 1970s.
“food choices”
High quality tomatoes were the norm.
Spaghetti sauce had flavour.
Spices were good.
The 1950s diet you described sounds typical and decent for present-day impoverished (U.S., not funded by foreign government) graduate research assistants, or for throwback school lunches for public school children. The Viet Cong lived off a pocketful of rice. Instead of fish sticks made from pollock, we have now tilapia, which are raised eating the p**p of salmon. “Ice MILK” (versus ice CREAM) in the 1950s would be used in an extreme weight-loss diet.
Frozen chicken pot pies have cubed chicken meat, vegetables, no chicken skin. The quality depends on the brand you choose to buy. Frozen tater tots are extruded from finely diced potatoes. Being processed/manufactured, anything besides a store brand is not cheap, compared to potatoes themselves.
The only items I’ll concede to you are hot dogs, bleached white bread, and American cheese (read the labels for the ingredients). Regarding Crisco, canola oil (rapeseed) wasn’t developed until the late 1960s/early 1970s. Canned corn and green beans are things preppers keep on hand.
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