Posted on 09/24/2021 7:08:12 AM PDT by Onthebrink
What really gets lost in all of this talk is how much soldiers will miss the M9 Beretta handguns. Travis Pike, a former Marine machine gunner who served with 2nd Bn 2nd Marines for five years, recently wrote on Sandboxx that “I couldn’t help but feel a little tinge of nostalgic sadness. I’m not saying the Beretta was better than the Sig, but I loved the M9.”
(Excerpt) Read more at 19fortyfive.com ...
We should have stayed with the 1911.....
A tough gun to use for a lot of the GI Janes
Regarding the Sig, the military purchased both the guns and the various conversions to allow for different sized hands and even different calibers for certain units.
Regarding the M9, its an accurate shooter and perfectly fine for shooting 50 rounds on a range and then going home and cleaning and oiling it up. OTOH, take it to the desert and fire it for 100 or so rounds and its dry and wont cycle. Drop it in the dirt and it wont make it through a magazine before the slide freezes up from grit.
Berettas don’t jam.
Unless using highly under powered home loads.
The new M4, and AR-15s derived from it, are a different breed. They don’t jam like the old ones. But, I should stop wasting keystrokes on this.
The Covid vaccine obviously is causing early onset dementia in the writers at 19fortyfive.com.
Indeed - the M4 cartridge guide cuts are fantastic, coupled with those anti-tilt mag followers.
It’s been long enough that I don’t have those nightmares where all you get is ‘bang-chunk...click...click...’ It’s back to the old ‘you didn’t go to class all term and you’re late for the final that you have to pass to graduate...”
Oh man, I get those same ones except its just trying to get to class, I cant recall my class schedule or find the class room amongst all the buildings on campus, but I know I am late and havent been able to get to class all semester...
Guessing you meant "Adventure Line" - when I can find them in good condition, I personally prefer the Adventure Line and Simmonds/UI 20-round GI mags to the Colt-labeled 20s...
;^)
Funny, I was an enlisted grunt then, 83-93, A1s and the beginning of A2s. As a longtime, pre-Army rifleman (M1, M14NM), I never found a single A1 I was issued to be problematic functionality wise. Occasional magazine problems, which, when found, were stomped into an unusable shape immediately, yeah, I bought a few for my commander, but he /they finally came around, the mag is a class9 expendable item....
I did find a bent barrel now and again.
M4 feed ramps are not required, but they do help when the system is overgassed and running at much higher than designed bolt speed, a the M4 carbine does.
Upgraded no-tilt followers are another nice but not necessary tweak- magpul made a fortune. Its bolt speed.
Todays modular M4 and clones are some of the most capable small arms on the field today. Folks laud the AK, but then again, if they are comparing the AK to the 60s AR, maybe they have a claim. Having worked with foreign folks toting garbage AKs of all parentage, all I can say is I’d drop my AK and pick up an M16 variant any day.
A real advancement is the mid-length gas system in a 14-18 inch carbine with Free Floating handguard, flat top and mid range optics and modular cool guy stuff helps at night.
What’s not to like? Okay, GI Ball other than Mk318 and 855A1 suck, but boy, you can reload some cool effective stuff.
Thanks for your service Marine.
I have a bit of downrange experience myself. 24 years under the Flag, Army INF/Abn Ranger and commissioned engineer, sure, M16 variants fail, occasionally some failures are more than type 1 or 2, (Immediate/Remedial action). Gas tubes fail very rarely.
Had the run of issued M16a1s, A2s, M4s, M60, M249, M240 and a few FNs and Bolt guns. You know, I never had a failure to fire or function in combat. Funny how that works.
Interestingly, the M4 is the most maligned and whined about rifle (okay, carbine) in history in teh US military. Yet, when it is run under controlled horrid conditions, it beat all comers handily multiple times, so a step away from the ubiquitous AR platform will/would have been a step backwards.
Carried an FCSCAR for a bit , then the regiment took them away because they sucked. failures of every type once taken off the reservation if you get my drift.
Retired now, my go to is a cute but viscous AR carbine with decent bullets. I think I’ll be fine unless....
35 years - I’m glad I remembered that much :D
I know what you mean - seems like my memory should be getting better, with all of those years of 'practice'!
;^)
If one was wants to run with the Big Dogs fine. If not then stay under the porch.
And I’m not putting Women down but being in the Military is not a game. If I had a fellow/fellowette Soldier watching My back I would want them to have some serious firepower to do it with. I also want them to be comfortable with the handling of the Pistol.
I prefer to have My enemy Dead not Wounded. A wounded person can still shoot at Me, a dead one cannot return fire.
As always with this debate between 9mm and .45acp it comes down to personal preference. 9mm: 15+1=16 or .45acp: 7+1=8 (Please no cheering because I can do Higher Mathematics.)
When I carried a 9mm it was a Ruger P85MKII with a 17+1 and 2-35 round mags in a shoulder rig with the spares pouch modified by Me to handle the long mags. So 17+1+35x2=88 total. I’m big enough that with all that hanging on Me a flannel shirt or a jacket concealed it and did not “Print”.
Now in My later years and medical situation I’ve gone to the 1911 7+1 and 6-7 round mags in My bag-o-stuff in the RoloWalker Seat. So I end up with 7+1+6x7=50. (Again no applause needed for the Higher Mathematics.)
I happen to be predominantly Right handed when it comes to most things but I’m ambidextrous when it comes to handling a Pistol so I guess it’s an option for Me to use both if needed.
Daayymmmit that is close to the Nightmare I have had before where I’ve got fresh ammo and everything in functioning shape and I have an engagement with a no face thug where I happen upon the scene and I squeeze off a round to enter the conflict (thug shot innocent people in a store) and the primer kicks off but not the powder and the bullet gets to the muzzle and drops to the ground !!! And there’s not enough pressure to cycle the slide and I have to manually rack the slide !!! Then I woke up before the new round is in the chamber ...
I guess weapons are like cars..... everyone has their favorite brand. Sometimes you just get a bad one, or bad components, crappy alternator, magazines, hub assembly, or ammo....anything mass produced is bound to have some lemons.
I swore by Chevys and that's all I bought...till my last one; now I have a Ford.
When your equipment leaves you high and dry long before it should, or at an inopportune time, it's hard to be trusting of the brand.
You noted a run of failures, including with M240s......I can't say I've ever had one of those go bad in a firefight.....ran them winchester, but never a failure.
Of course we had our fair share of shot out barrels, runaway guns and broken carrying handles on the guns that had been around for years on end, with hundreds of thousands of rounds to their name, but luckily we got newer guns before we left.
I'll just never forget kneeling in the street trying to strip a round and brass out of an M16 (failed to extract/eject - bolt didn't go back far enough, but still tried to chamber the next round) firing a few more rounds and having the same issue. Finally got into a building and was able to punch some of the crap out of the tube.
It had been dusty and then a light mist....caused all that powdery sand to sludge. I also think some of the ammo they gave us may have ran dirty. Combine that with the amount rounds I ran through it......the tube was full of crap, it just wasn't throwing the bolt all the way and was running like garbage. After it was cleaned - it was fine.
As the adage goes, a Marine has "an M16 at work, and AK-47 at home."
I'm retired now too, so I can be my own armorer and logistician....benefits of being in the 2D Civ Div.
👍
I thought it did, because SpecOps types would not use it if it did not have options. I often felt there were better options than the M9. There was really a feeling that the M9 was selected because woman were being moved into combat support roles that required them to carry a pistol as a TO&E weapon. But, a lot of males liked the M9 because it was easier to qualify with. The old M1911’s were too much for the average woman shooting once a year. But, what I saw with SOME female Corpsman, the M9 was too much for them. They did okay with the A2 but it was a good thing they did not go on combat patrols. With more woman in direct combat support roles the weapons platforms are going to have to change. I have to wonder, training and exercises are one thing, but how will woman react to being in extended direct combat roles. If the draft of woman passes in the NDAA, woman who lack other skills or education could end up in direct combat roles. That would mean urban women would not get educational or social benefits unless they register. Look at what we see in our cities and chew on that for awhile. But that could be an entire thread.
Indeed, regarding mass production.
I recall when assigned to a USAR unit that just received A2s, FN made; went zero my copy and had extraction/ ejection problems riff the get go. Picked a coupke of cases and noted a double shoulder.... The barrel had been drilled then reamed for the chamber but the drill went too far, then the reamed cut the chamber. So imagine a case with a two step shoulder... Saved the cases and grabbed a second rifle, made it mine zeroed and qualed just fine. Reported the issue to the armorer, Fort Drum ordnance checked it and all new rifles. 30 plus had these defects out of about 225 issued to the Hqs company. Yet, every one had met acceptance at Aberdeen or Edgewood, function fired 30 rounds, targeted 9 rounds and given a blessing....
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.