Depends on the angle. The shot which follows the aircraft's landing directly, shows its path clearly. The photo from side-on there's no relflection.
Posted on 02/23/2014 3:09:07 PM PST by butterdezillion
The photos of the Loretta Fuddy Cessna crash that Josh Lang provided to the media? They weren't of the same plane. The plane that crashed with Fuddy in it had a window between the door and the tail; Lang's photos don't. (I've got photos at my blog and in the first post I'll post them so you can compare the 2 planes)
Lang apparently had photos of a DIFFERENT plane ditching in the water and gave them to the media, claiming they were of this crash, and apparently the media didn't check out the genuineness of the photos...
Now why would Lang do that? Why would he post images of the area with no passengers or anything else in the water ANYWHERE, rather than taking photos of what was actually there and giving those to the media?
YOu apparently haven’t even looked at my youtube video where I explained that the USCG was reported in the MCFD communications as being present only at 4:44. Four minutes AFTER the news media - informed by Richard KAWASAKI, who was the MCFD’s media liaison together with Lt. William Juan of the Maui County Police Dept - reported that there was one dead.
Where did Lang say that the USCG arrived at 4:05? What I’ve seen of his comments was that he left at 4:30 when he was able to show somebody where the victims were. Even though there were supposed to be smoke flares to do that. Who laid down the smoke flares and when? We’re told it was a navy helicopter. When did the navy helicopter do that?
The MCFD incident report says their helicopter arrived on-scene at 4:30 while they were still trying to make contact with the USCG. AT 4:38 the crew manning the helicopter reported seeing 3 people in the water that they were going to lift out.
They were also trying to find out how many people were out there because around the time the helicopter arrived on-scene Richard Schumann said it would take him an hour to come up with a list of who was on that plane. And civilians had reported that most of the victims had already swum ashore.
Discrepancies all over the place, like I said.
When there is a fatality the NTSB is supposed to handle the EVIDENCE as if it was a law enforcement investigation, because they can’t know but that a crime had been committed. The NTSB didn’t do that, so if a crime was committed the evidence is contaminated and could not stand up in trial. So the NTSB botched that part.
But even if there’s a death the NTSB is not a law enforcement body. If they suspect a crime they can report it and then law enforcement investigates. Are you suggesting that the NTSB found evidence of a crime and referred it to the FBI, and that’s why I can’t see the radio communications?
Lang said the first rescue helicopter arrived 15 minutes after the Cessna sank from sight. The plane floated for 25 minutes after the crash. The crash occurred at 3:25. He said the second copter arrived about 30 minutes later.
Do the math.
Depends on the angle. The shot which follows the aircraft's landing directly, shows its path clearly. The photo from side-on there's no relflection.
Links please?
If what you’re saying is correct, Lang is claiming that the first rescue helicopter arrived at 4:05 and the second at 4:35. But he also said that he stayed until help arrived at 4:30.
What helicopter arrived at 4:05 then? The navy helicopter? What was the 6th plane in the air during the rescue (according to the USCG guy who said that there were at least 6 in the air during the rescue)?
According to Lang and Thomson, about 15 minutes before the first rescue crew arrived the aircraft completely submerged and sank."
"All that was left was a faint fuel trail, some light debris, and now 8 bodies scattered in the water roughly one mile from where the plane had sunk," the couple said.
They say around 4:30 p.m., about an hour after they first spotted the plane, a Navy helicopter arrived. According to Lang and Thomson, once they showed rescuers where to go, they left to avoid being in the way.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/24246422/exclusive-pilot-describes-discovering-molokai-plane-crash
In Lang’s defense, the first rescue crew arrived at about 4:30, according to the MCFD - about the time that Lang says a navy helicopter arrived. If the plane sunk at about 4:15 his claims could fit with the MCFD report. Did Lang say when the plane sank?
So when was the navy helicopter at the airport doing what Mark Miller called “touch and goes”??
A search and rescue operation was initiated on Dec. 11 after a Makani Kai Air plane crashed shortly after takeoff from Kalaupapa at around 3:35 p.m
Maui police say the plane lost power and the pilot landed the plane in the water about a half mile outside Kalaupapa.
The Coast Guard and the Maui Fire Department lifted eight people out of the water.
One of the passengers swam to shore
One of the passengers, State Director of Health, Loretta Fuddy, died.
I know nothing. I see three helicopters. Who do they belong to? One is COASTGUARD. I see nothing about NAVY.
I wonder what I have to do to get the whole image to show up.
Where can I see what Mark Miller said about Navy Helicopters?
Here’s the only article I can find right now that mentions what he had to say:
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/24210882/kalaupapa-residents-say-health-dir
quote:
“I met her here,” says Killilea, as he stands at the white picket fence surrounding the runway.
He and settlement Administrator Mark Miller met the State Department of Health Director at the airport Wednesday morning.
Fuddy was on official business. Her title automatically makes her the honorary Mayor of the town. And while the visit was work-related, she also had time to do a little sightseeing with her Deputy Director, Keith Yamamoto.
“I took her by the beach,” says Miller, who says two whales were spouting and spinner dolphins were putting on a show for the group. They also visited the grave site of Father Damien and met with Hansen’s Disease patients who still live in the town of about 100. At a town hall meeting, Fuddy listened to the concerns of the residents.
Then she and Yamamoto caught the last flight out of Kalaupapa, about three-thirty in the afternoon.
The pilot stated that shortly after takeoff, a loud bang was heard and there was a total loss of power. After a short glide, he performed an open ocean ditching. The airplane floated for approximately 25 minutes and then sank. All the passengers put on their life preservers and exited the airplane. US Coast Guard and Maui Fire and Rescue personnel recovered the passengers approximately 80 minutes later.
Do you have a link to the Maui FD incident report?
The yellow Magnum PI copter in Fred's post is the Maui FD.
Fire rescue workers climb into a helicopter at Kilohana to take a closer look at the crash site.
Correct me, if needs be. It sounds like Miller can’t tell the difference between Navy and Coastguard. If there is a difference. And it seems he wasn’t at the airport when the aircraft took off. He says the plane was the last to leave at 3.30, and that’s the time the airport office shuts its doors. Did they hang around to watch the aircraft clear the runway? Doesn’t sound like it. When it’s time to go home, slam the door and they’re off.
Who took Yamamoto and Fuddy to the airport? Was it Miller himself and he would rather not talk about it? He doesn’t sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer to me.
“Who took Yamamoto and Fuddy to the airport? Was it Miller himself and he would rather not talk about it?”
Butter says Miller did but no one knows the exact time. The plane left at 3:23 and crashed at 3:25.
After picking them up in the morning and being with them all day, did he just drop them at the airport and head home? We just do not know.
well, it won’t hurt to take up a little more space:
“He’s a pilot that I’ve flown with frequently — he’s one of the best,” said Department of Health Kalaupapa Administrator Mark Miller. “He proved it by being seriously injured and still getting everyone out the airplane.”
Miller said Kawasaki was bleeding with possible broken ribs and leg injuries when he arrived on shore after being pulled from the water by Maui County Fire Rescue and Coast Guard personnel.
“He got the plane landed [on the water] and was able to get everybody out,” continued Miller of Kawasaki. “The currents out there were awful… with big waves and white caps… He tried to get everyone to stay together… they all had life vests on.”
Miller said Fuddy and fellow passenger DOH Deputy Director Keith Yamamoto were separated from each other by the currents.
He said by 4:30 p.m., seven passengers were accounted for but two were still in the Coast Guard helicopter. The male on board survived but Fuddy could not be revived.
According to the Coast Guard, rescue swimmers were deployed from helicopters, rescuing three passengers in the water. Maui Fire Rescue rescued the additional passengers.
Miller said Fuddy’s body was taken to the care home while a priest came to say the last rights and some residents paid their final respects. Her body was then transported to Molokai General Hospital.
Besides the two Department of Health officials, Miller said two of the passengers were tourists, one was a construction worker, another came to do some work for the day in Kalaupapa, and one was a Kalaupapa National Park Service employee, along with her husband.
Miller described the survivors as dazed and subdued when they got back on shore.
According to Molokai General Hospital staff, the three survivors who were taken to the hospital last night arrived dripping wet, cold, hungry and most of all, tired. The hospital washed and dried their clothes, fed them and let them rest. The three reportedly stayed at Hotel Molokai last night.
Three of the other survivors were taken directly to Oahu, while two declined treatment, remaining in Kalaupapa, according to emergency officials.
Miller called it fortunate that a military aircraft was doing touch and goes at the Kalaupapa airport around the time of the crash and reported the accident. Within 15 minutes, Coast Guard was on site, and minutes afterward, Maui County fire and rescue personnel had divers starting rescue operations, said Miller.
“We set up triage station in the airport — everybody was there to lend assistance… with blankets, extra clothes and food,” reported Miller.
So it sounds like Miller was watching from the shore, the helicopters belonged to the rescue service, the fire department and the coast guard, and all the ‘military aircraft’ might have been responsible for is reporting the accident.
Touch-and-go landingFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.In aviation, a touch-and-go landing or circuit is a maneuver that is common when learning to fly a fixed-wing aircraft. It involves landing on a runway and taking off again without coming to a full stop. Usually the pilot then circles the airport in a defined pattern known as a circuit and repeats the maneuver. This allows many landings to be practiced in a short time.[1]
If the pilot brings the aircraft to a full stop before taking off again then it is known as “stop-and-go”.
Because he has a lot to say and that's the one thing he doesn't talk about, I think it's pretty safe to assume it was him. If he dropped them off at the airport and turned around and drove away, it might indicate that not all was sweetness and light on the island. We have no idea what the dispute was they came to settle, and I have a sense they are never going to tell you. Could that have any bearing on the accident which followed? Only if the dispute was of such import and created such animousity... And you'll never know. Will you?
http://themolokaidispatch.com/kalaupapa-aircraft-wreckage-to-be-recovered-under-investigation/
“Miller called it fortunate that a military aircraft was doing touch and goes at the Kalaupapa airport around the time of the crash and reported the accident. Coast Guard and Maui County Fire Rescue personnel arrived in about 20 minutes and started the rescue operation, said Miller.”
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