CARTOON: The Dawkins Delusion

Out of Order Blog ^ | 12-29-11 | Dale

[daletoons]

Atheist militant Richard Dawkins has produced a children's book entitled "The Magic of Reality" and in doing so has joined the Millstone Swim and Dive Club. Spreading his venom for God to kids under the guise of Scientism is about as putrid as it gets. Children using simple God-given logic conclude the existence of a creator. It requires an abandonment of logic to attain self omniscience and declare there is no God. The materialist's faith in the escape hatch of "there just wasn't enough evidence for me" won't wash on judgement day. Here's a book idea: The ghost of Christopher Hitchens, Jacob Marley style, appears to Richard Dawkins and sets him straight. Dickey would probably make a hash of it, too bad Hitchens isn't still around to write it.

[metmom]

1.) Google "will not taste death" and you'll come up with several verses. I think one is in Matthew and one is in Luke.

I did and got this....

"Was Jesus' statement to the disciples in Luke 9:27 (also Matthew 16:28; Mark 9:1) incorrect?"

http://www.gotquestions.org/not-taste-death.html

It explains it more concisely than I could have and I don't really have the time to do the research into it. Mr. mm and I are re-plumbing the upstairs bathroom and need to be available to help him.

I'll confess to being irritated about this: If I were to embrace Christianity this very minute, the only thing that would have to change about my life is ... I guess Sunday mornings.

You need to look into Christianity not churchianity. There is a difference and many people conflate the two. Going to church is NOT a requirement to be a true believer in Christ. Christianity is not about church attendance.

Some denominations demand it and threaten hell over missing services, but that is NOT found anywhere in Scripture.

The only thing Christianity would require me to give up is the freedom to use my brain exactly as I see fit. That's the "outcome" I don't like and won't put up with.

And how do you expect that you'd have to change how you use your brain? I've never heard that rationale before and don't understand what you mean by it.

FWIW, I got saved, accepted Christ, when I was 22. My life change dramatically for the better and I got motivated to go back to college and finish up my degree, which for the record, is in meteorology. And I had a blast doing it. It was a fun degree to get. My faith did not hinder my getting a degree and enjoying the mental challenge of it. I like school, actually.

And let's face it. We're talking about Christianity here, not "theism." No Freeper here would be content if I proclaimed that I found God! Through his prophet, Mohammed!! No indeedy. This isn't about obedience to Holy Writ, because my life falls within those boundaries naturally. Frankly, if you're neither greedy, horny, a pathological liar, klepto, or a drug addict, this is likely to be the case. This isn't about following rules. It's about BELIEVING something. Joining a club of people who believe because... well, they all have their own reasons, I suppose. But why do you want people in your club? I mean, really? What's moral about suspending disbelief in any respect? This is a serious question... why is that "moral"? Because I really don't get it.

Honestly, at this point, I'm not sure I get what you're getting at here. I mean, I get that you're a good person, but the rest is somewhat confusing.

And for the last one..... Thanks......

You know, before I came to Christ, I was borderline atheist. I just could never get to the point where I could deny that He existed. There were just too many things in this world that defied explanation to write Him off. However, He did not figure at all into my everyday life at the time. Religion just wasn't a factor I concerned myself with.

[metmom]

As a minor note, I question the morality of anyone who can consider with delight the eternal torture of another.

Who wouldn't?

[A_perfect_lady]

but the data is decidedly against this understanding of His words.

LOL... Most Honest Remark On This Thread So Far!! Yes, the data is very, very much against any normal understanding of "I will be back in your lifetime." Oh. Boy, that's my first laugh of the day. Yep. The never came back data sure as heck doesn't support any normal understanding.

[wintertime]

The study of evolution is massively important for all of biology - and it’s why flu shots are updated yearly.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A flu virus has never grown into a mammal. You are confusing macro-evolution with micro-evolution.

Now?....In what field is your Ph.D. in science? ( Just wondering)

[betty boop]

This life is all you get. Be good. Be careful. Be honest. Save your money. Look around. Find your sphere. Stake a claim. Create a safe place for whomever you can. Be good to your family and pets. Try not to scar the young. Avoid credit cards. Take care of yourself and don't force others to do it for you. Look both ways (and up) before crossing the street. Especially in Beverly Hills. Use sunscreen. Learn from your mistakes. Learn from other people's mistakes. Try not to hurt anyone. Don't let them hurt you either. There was a time you did not exist. That time will come again. Between those two times, do this: Be good. Be careful. Take care of your family and pets. Don't litter. Save money....

Where to begin in responding to this description of "Reality?"

For openers, I do not agree that "this life" is "all you get." Christians hold that Life is eternal. That is to say, it pre-exists our physical birth, and post-exists our physical death. Which is further to say that human life is not completely defined by its experience as finite, physically-incarnated body and "nothing more."

The other thing I notice about your litany is how "lawful" it is. You readily accept that there are "right ways" and "wrong ways" in which to conduct a human life, especially your own.

But you are really, really "fuzzy" about the problem of how "law and order" was introduced in the Universe in the first place, such that we can even talk about what is a "right way" and what is a "wrong way" of proceeding in our personal lives.

In short, for you, Truth is something just "floating around 'out there' in the ozone." It has no GROUND in Reality. It is simply an abstract concept that, despite the fact that it seems to organize your own personal experience in essential ways, you continue to refuse to see as "objectively" real in itself — i.e., as something quite apart from your own personal longings, desires, hope, wishes, fears, etc., but which impinges on you relentlessly in every aspect of your mortal existence nonetheless.

My suspicion is, Truth does not finally depend on you (or me) AT ALL. Neither can it be found via a public opinion poll. To me, it is the very basic structure of universal Reality and absolutely everything in it, including you and me.

You act/speak as if you know this. But you refuse to trace this knowledge of Truth back to the First Cause that made it all possible — in principle — "in the Logos of the Beginning."

I agree with you: "Life is simple, really." The only way it gets "complicated" is when a man is in rebellion against the very Ground of his own being and thinking....

FWIW, my friend.... I'm wishing you well in all things.

[A_perfect_lady]

And how do you expect that you'd have to change how you use your brain? I've never heard that rationale before and don't understand what you mean by it.

I know you don't. This is why these discussions really are a waste of time. But we all waste time sometimes. Especially on vacation.

[metmom]

wintertime: >It seems that the biggest defenders of evolution are also the biggest defenders our nation’s atheistic, compulsory-attendance, compulsory-funded, socialist K-12 school system. I wonder why that is?

Muridae:Fallacy: red herring.

Wrong. Don't you remember Perhaps you are unaware of all those crevo threads where the biggest supporters of our nation’s atheistic, compulsory-attendance, compulsory-funded, socialist K-12 school system and DEMAND that evolution and evolution only and creation need not apply, be taught.

What was your previous screen name?

[metmom]

You’re a hypocrite. In post 143 you flatly deny what you here are just promoting.

[MrB]

Why do non-believers always jump to the conclusion that believers “delight” in people spending eternity in hell when the opposite is the truth?

I think it’s one of things that liberals do, you know, like if you disagree with 0bama you must be a racist.

If you state the truth about eternity being based on your relationship with Jesus, you must be a sadist that delights in eternal torture.

[metmom]

OZONE!

IBTZ!

[A_perfect_lady]

Law is based simply on what best promotes peace and order in societies. You don’t need a God to tell you that loaning money to jerk-offs is a bad idea. All you have to do is do it once and get burned. I mean... geez, people. You live and you learn. You try to tell the younger folks what you learned. That’s it. Do you really need apocalyptic armeggedon end-of-the-world mark-of-the-best forever-after holy-holy go-into-the-light drama for this?? Dang.

[A_perfect_lady]

Law is based simply on what best promotes peace and order in societies. You don’t need a God to tell you that loaning money to jerk-offs is a bad idea. All you have to do is do it once and get burned. I mean... geez, people. You live and you learn. You try to tell the younger folks what you learned. That’s it. Do you really need apocalyptic armeggedon end-of-the-world mark-of-the-beast forever-after holy-holy go-into-the-light drama for this?? Dang.

[metmom]

This might be of interest to A_Perfect_Lady....

Shaped from clay [origin of life]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1515522/posts

Genesis 2:7 ...then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

Clay is the finest of all sediment. It’s particle size could put it on par with dust. And that has been my observation when dealing with claylike soil in my attempts to garden in some areas. It’s very dusty when dry.

[A_perfect_lady]

Sorry. Found a typo.

[chrisser]

Thanks for being the “quotey-linky guy”.

There is some fascinating and though-provoking discussion on that One Cosmos blog.

[chrisser]

Thanks for being the “quotey-linky guy”.

There is some fascinating and though-provoking discussion on that One Cosmos blog.

[wintertime]

With a mere 20 **minutes** of macro-evolution how is it that my biochemist husband, a research team leader, earned 6 patents, lectured worldwide, published in the leading journals of his field, and achieved the remarkable accolades of his fellow scientists of company by being voted “Distinguished Scientist” at the early age of 40?

These government school defenders ( many of them teachers), urging that their anointed education worldview be **forced** on other people's children and citizens **forced ** to pay for it, likely would **fail** the math portion of the GED! How many could tell us what a numerator is and what it represents? They have the audacity to lecture others about science?

In my opinion, they are ill-educated, ill-informed, busy bodies and complete twits!

[hosepipe]

[ As a minor note, “a diety made them out of dirt” is a bit more of a yarn. ]

The string yarn was not made up yet.. nor was Quantum ramblings about fantastic micro stuff..
The fact remains, people just love a good story..

Hell democrats think there is such a thing as a free lunch..
AND republicans think Romney is a conservative..
Rinos could buy either story they just want to be entertained..

Science fiction MUST seem logical (to humans) else whats the point..
Reality however need not be logical (to humans) at all, (nothing to prove)..

[wintertime]

Clay is the finest of all sediment.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly! Dust. Clay. As fine and delicate a material that a primitive person could understand.

I'd like to see the evolution defenders write a more accurate and beautifully composed account of creation and man's appearance on the earth that would be understandable by a primitive people. They would fail miserably.

[Muridae]

That is a great deal of projection, coming from someone espousing (I presume) creation, but I’m afraid it doesn’t hold up.

I’m not really sure where you come up with the idea that evidence can support any theory, which is simply wrong, but perhaps I can give a few examples to demonstrate the point:

The human chromosome 2 shows an exceptional degree of homology to a pair of chimp chromosomes, named 2A and 2B - the same genes we have on our chromosome 2 they have on those two chromosomes, in the same order. In addition, human chromosome 2 has vestigial telomerse (found at the end of chromosomes) inside it, at the point where the genes from chimp chromosome 2A stop and those of 2B begin. Further, it contains a vestigial centromere (each chromosome only contains one normally). Together, this is good evidence for not just sharing a common ancestor with chimps, but is a rather good sign that after divergence, pre-humans underwent a chromosome fusion event that joined two previously separate chromosomes into a single one, which fixed in the population.

There is a gene in most mammals that codes for a protein which allows us to synthesize vitamin C. Humans, the other great apes, guinea pigs, and a number of other species don’t have a working copy, but instead a pseudogene - a region which does not produce a functional protein, but which resembles a gene in other species. The pseudogenes that exist in humans and the other great apes have the same inactivating mutations; they don’t work for the same reason, to say very simply. This is indicative that the inactivating mutations occurred in a common ancestor to the great apes, and has been passed down to humans and chimps and gorillas all, most notably because of the odds of such a thing arising randomly. The guinea pig species also have a pseudogene instead of a working copy, which bears a major resemblance to the copies in numerous mammalian species, but it is - once more - non-functional. In addition, the mutations which rendered it non-functional are shared within the guinea pig family, but are exceptionally different from those that inactivate the gene in the great apes. Together, this is evidence that the gene is shared among mammals because it arose in a common ancestor mammals share, but it has been inactivated multiple times in multiple lineages, further indicating that, for example, humans are more closely related to great apes then to guinea pigs.

This is, of course, the metaphorical tip of the iceberg; we can talk about the genetic histories of just about any gene you’re curious about, and we find similar patterns.

Now, if you’re backing design, you can look at this and say “that’s how a designer made it” - which is an explanation, if a poor one, but does not make any predictions. Evolution, on the other hand, not only provides an explanation, but a consistent explanation for these in conjunction with other phenomena, and predictive power in that we can use it to predict the lineages of other gene families as well.

This is not a manipulation of the evidence to suit a theory; rather, the theory is based upon the evidence; the fact that the theory’s original predictions fit with the those found by genetics is a testament to its accuracy and power.

That’s the coolest thing about science though - if we find a piece of evidence that cannot be explained by the present theories, we change the theories! That’s how Newtonian physics made way for relativity, for example.

As an afterthought, and clarification, creationism/ID is pseudoscience; it is unable to make predictions (and thus not a scientific theory), is based upon fallacious reasoning, and is not supported experimentally.