Can we please keep comments about the Mormon faith off the political discussion threads?

one man's opinion...

[ken5050]

As we enter the GOP primary season, I'm starting to notice more and more an annoying trend here in FR. It seems as though everytime there's an article, or someone posts a comment about Romney, either pro or con, it nearly always devolves into an extended, and acrimonious discussion about the Mormon faith. Those who defend it, and those who, for whatever reasons, can't abide it, both sides seem determined to wage an "end of times" batte on all the FR threads. Frankly, I'm tired of it, and just wish it would stop. I think that probably 99% of others here feel the same way.

[Colofornian]

I don't think I am taking a position for or against relativism here.

Yeah, well there are agnostics who simply say they are not taking a position for or against theism. And then there are other agnostics who go further and say, "NO one CAN know if God exists."
(See the difference?)

The first position is truly agnostic.

The second position merely masquerades as agnosticism. Why do I say that? Because the supposed "agnostic" -- the person who revels in such ignorance and claims some relativistic "we can't know" drivel -- proceeds further and assumes an absolute position: That indeed no one CAN know.

The second position is therefore an absolute atheist masquerading as an "agnostic" so that he appear to be a bit more "humble."

So, perhaps you can see, when I see you asking Are you in charge of making these determinations?? about which worldviews are true or not, there seems to be an imbedded spirit there quick to challenge truth claims.

And what I'd like to know is -- are you more of a humble relativist like that first agnostic example; or an absolutist masquerading as a relativist?

[Elsie]

IMHO, it is hypocritical of the Freepers here to say Mormons can't hold the presidency, then ask us to vote for their evangelical candidate...

And It is NOT my opinion that you are not being truthful in what you just typed.

You have BEEN in threads where MANY of us said that we'd vote for a MORMON - IF that mormon gave any indication that he/she were a conservative.

Quit building so many strawmen.

[Jim Robinson]

When and if our readers feel FR is no longer wanted, needed or viable, I’ll close it down. Until then, retread, it’s none of your damned business how I manage it. Now bug out. Yeah and I went back and reviewed the posts that got you banned before. Not surprisingly it was for bad-mouthing FR and the RM particularly. Look, trespasser, if you don’t like it here, just stay away. The next time you leave or get banned, don’t come back!!

[Elsie]

They will say anything to make the controversy distasteful, uncomfortable, and downright unpleasant.

I am NOT a MORMON!!

[Elsie]

They will say anything to make the controversy distasteful, uncomfortable, and downright unpleasant.

 

Mosiah

Chapter 3

 

 

1 Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day I, God, ended my work, and all things which I had made; and I rested on the seventh day from all my work, and all things which I had made were finished, and  I, God, saw that they were good;
3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which  I, God, had created and made.
4 And now, behold,  I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.
8 And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there I put the man whom I had formed.
9 And out of the ground made I, the Lord God, to grow every tree, naturally, that is pleasant to the sight of man; and man could behold it. And it became also a living soul. For it was spiritual in the day that I created it; for it remaineth in the sphere in which I, God, created it, yea, even all things which I prepared for the use of man; and man saw that it was good for food. And I, the Lord God, planted the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and also the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And I, the Lord God, caused a river to go out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 And I, the Lord God, called the name of the first Pison, and it compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where I , the Lord God, created much gold;
12 And the gold of that land was good, and there was bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river was called Gihon; the same that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river was Hiddekel; that which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river was the Euphrates.
15 And I, the Lord God, took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden, to dress it, and to keep it.
16 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat,
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And I, the Lord God, said unto mine Only Begotten, that it was not good that the man should be alone; wherefore,  I will make an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground I, the Lord God, formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and commanded that they should come unto Adam, to see what he would call them; and they were also living souls; for I, God, breathed into them the breath of life, and commanded that whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that should be the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but as for Adam, there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And I, the Lord God, caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam; and he slept, and I took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in the stead thereof;
22 And the rib which I, the Lord God, had taken from man, made I a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said: This I know now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife; and they shall be done flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

 

[Elsie]

IMHO, from a business stand point JR should send them all packing.

You failed to ping Jim yet again.

[cantabile]

Have it your way, Jim. Time will tell who wins the argument.

[donozark]

Just because you are paranoid, doesn’t mean they ain’t out to get ya.
Pound on Romney? Fine. Pound on Mormons? Ya, lets just drive away a group that votes R overwhelmingly.
“Motive?” The same Q could be asked of the usual suspects on this thread...

[Jim Robinson]

Argument? I don’t argue with concern trolls or retreads. I zot them.

[Colofornian]

For some, their name or part of their name says it all: ‘bile

[ansel12]

That was awfully confused sounding, you didn’t address the post at all.

[SZonian]

Heber C. Kimball who was a member of the first presidency said,"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ.

How, pray tell is he describing "artificial insemination"?

[Elsie]

As far as I’m concerned (and I think as far as most mainstream religious scholarship is concerned), Mormanism is a form of Christianity.

Then you think incorrectly.

---

The general meetings of the United Methodist Church, and Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and Southern Baptist Convention have stated, in their opinion, the LDS is a denomination that is separate from the Christian religion:

 

	The General Conference of the United Methodist Church approved a document on 2000-MAY-10:  "Sacramental Faithfulness: Guidelines for Receiving People From the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons)"  The document says, in part, that: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, by self-definition, does not fit within the bounds of the historic, apostolic tradition of Christian faith...[Mormons'] explicitly [profess] distinction and separateness from the ecumenical community." The document also recommends that individual Mormons first formally remove themselves from the LDS before seeking membership in the United Methodist Church.
	According to a pamphlet produced by the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), "...Mormonism is a new and emerging religious tradition distinct from the historic apostolic tradition of the Christian Church, of which Presbyterians are a part...Latter-day Saints understand themselves to be separate from the continuous witness to Jesus Christ, from the apostles to the present, affirmed by churches of the "catholic" tradition. Latter-day Saints and the historic churches view the canon of scriptures and interpret shared scriptures in radically different ways. They use the same words with dissimilar meanings. When the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints speaks of the Trinity, Christ's death and resurrection, and salvation, the theology and practices related to these set it apart from the Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant churches." Presbyterians do not recognize the baptism administered to Mormons. A convert must be re-baptized. Similarly Presbyterians do not allow LDS officials to administer the Lord's Supper.
	The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) agrees closely with LDS beliefs concerning the submissive role for women in marriage, exclusion of women from the clergy, opposition to abortion access, equal rights for gays and lesbians, physician assisted suicide, opposition to same-sex marriage, etc. But the SBC has long criticized the LDS church theologically. They regard Mormons in the same category as Jews, Muslims. etc. All are viewed as non-Christians who are destined to spend eternity in Hell, and need to be "saved" in order to attain Heaven.

[ken5050]

OK..we're having a civilized discussion, so I'll happily amend my comments to:

a)NEARLY every thread..., and/or

b) it SEEMS to me that NEARLY every thread..

OK, seriously..you raise a key point, a political point, happily, that in your opinion, were Romney to get the nomination, he could never beat Obama, and it would thus be a disaster for Republicans.

That possibility always exists..however, I suspect that the 2012 race will be much more of a referewndum on Obama, which is why the Dems are trying early as possible to "force" the GOP to pick the nominee, so they have plenty of time to destroy him/her.

The economy, fuel prices, jobs, and of course, what's going on in the world will be the BIG issues. Egypt may well explode...you could see Muslims killing Copts in vast numbers while the new Muslim Brotherhood lef Egyptian government smiles and does nothing...Hamas and Hezbollah may use Obama's latest comments as an "excuse" for multiple attacks on Israel...the list is endless.

All this will work against Obama..

[Elsie]

Don’t blame him, Jim, for taking our bait!

[Elsie]

Some posts are just to juvenile to respond to.

The other 99.99% are over your head.

[ken5050]

Jim, would you care to post any comments about this thread...especially what I thoguht I was tryign to do, and they way it’s turning out..it’d be welcome..

[DelphiUser]

You are such a deluded lying hypocrite.(said without hate, just descriptive)

ROTFLOL! Really, no really, you went there? LOL!

Boy oh boy could I be descriptive...

I have found that those of us that refrain from Swearing end up with larger vocabularies... this descriptive stuff could be fun!

Pure Christianity guarantees a place in heaven for those that believe sincerely and repent.

So, a convicted child Rapist and Murderer who was baptized as a kid and said "I believe" is saved over a man who works all his life according to the dictates of his conscience and knowledge?

You do not know God. (said without hate, just descriptive)

When a person prays the prayer of salvation sincerely and repents, God confirms it that moment.

and you know that how...

Judgment happens at the end see Revelations 20:12-13

I'm not Jesus, so I don't get a vote.

I'm glad we finally got that straight.

You can become a god, so you do?

We get to vote on our own Christianity by Believing in and following Jesus.

Syncro, with the gloves off.

If this is the gloves off, sorry, I don't feel a difference. Maybe your hands are puffy (said without hate, just descriptive)

Delph

[Colofornian]

Pound on Mormons? Ya, lets just drive away a group that votes R overwhelmingly.

Well, allow me to summarize my earlier post (#517 to DU).

Utah Lds voters voted for Romney in the '08 primary: 95% Romney, 5% other

That means 9.5 (or figuring in other states, maybe 9) out of 10 Mormon voters are Romneybots.

That means that non-Lds candidates are vying for 5% (to at most 10%) of Mormon voters willing to consider a non-Lds candidate.

Lds are 2% of the population, and likely 1.5% of the GOP.

That means the non-Romney "voter group" being driven away is anywhere from 1/10th to 1/20th of 1.5%

1/10th = .15%...and half of that, which is the most likely, is .075% -- less than .08%!

[ken5050]

Ignore my last post to you, I just saw this one.

FYI..I can handle it, and will just skip the threads..obviosuly the vast majority are content with things as they are, and that's fine with me..