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When Atheists Attack (Each Other)
Evolution News and Views ^ | April 28 2011 | Davld Klinghoffer

Posted on 05/01/2011 7:24:18 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode

The squabble between Darwin lobbyists who openly hate religion and those who only quietly disdain it grows ever more personal, bitter and pathetic. On one side, evangelizing New or "Gnu" (ha ha) Atheists like Jerry Coyne and his acolytes at Why Evolution Is True. Dr. Coyne is a biologist who teaches and ostensibly researches at the University of Chicago but has a heck of a lot of free time on his hands for blogging and posting pictures of cute cats.

On the other side, so-called accommodationists like the crowd at the National Center for Science Education, who attack the New Atheists for the political offense of being rude to religious believers and supposedly messing up the alliance between religious and irreligious Darwinists.

I say "supposedly" because there's no evidence any substantial body of opinion is actually being changed on religion or evolution by anything the open haters or the quiet disdainers say. Everyone seems to seriously think they're either going to defeat religion, or merely "creationism," or both by blogging for an audience of fellow Darwinists.

Want to see what I mean? This is all pretty strictly a battle of stinkbugs in a bottle. Try to follow it without getting a headache.

Coyne recently drew excited applause from fellow biologist-atheist-blogger PZ Myers for Coyne's "open letter" (published on his blog) to the NCSE and its British equivalent, the British Centre for Science Education. In the letter, Coyne took umbrage at criticism of the New Atheists, mostly on blogs, emanating from the two accommodationist organizations. He vowed that,

We will continue to answer the misguided attacks [on the New Atheists] by people like Josh Rosenau, Roger Stanyard, and Nick Matzke so long as they keep mounting those attacks.
Like the NCSE, the BCSE seeks to pump up Darwin in the public mind without scaring religious people. This guy called Stanyard at the BCSE complains of losing a night's sleep over the nastiness of the rhetoric on Coyne's blog. Coyne in turn complained that Stanyard complained that a blog commenter complained that Nick Matzke, formerly of the NCSE, is like "vermin." Coyne also hit out at blogger Jason Rosenhouse for an "epic"-length blog post complaining of New Atheist "incivility." In the blog, Rosenhouse, who teaches math at James Madison University, wrote an update about how he had revised an insulting comment about the NCSE's Josh Rosenau that he, Rosenhouse, made in a previous version of the post.

That last bit briefly confused me. In occasionally skimming the writings of Jason Rosenhouse and Josh Rosenau in the past, I realized now I had been assuming they were the same person. They are not!

It goes on and on. In the course of his own blog post, Professor Coyne disavowed name-calling and berated Stanyard (remember him? The British guy) for "glomming onto" the Matzke-vermin insult like "white on rice, or Kwok on a Leica." What's a Kwok? Not a what but a who -- John Kwok, presumably a pseudonym, one of the most tirelessly obsessive commenters on Darwinist blog sites. Besides lashing at intelligent design, he often writes of his interest in photographic gear such as a camera by Leica. I have the impression that Kwok irritates even fellow Darwinists.

There's no need to keep all the names straight in your head. I certainly can't. I'm only taking your time, recounting just a small part of one confused exchange, to illustrate the culture of these Darwinists who write so impassionedly about religion, whether for abolishing it or befriending it. Writes Coyne in reply to Stanyard,

I'd suggest, then, that you lay off telling us what to do until you've read about our goals. The fact is that we'll always be fighting creationism until religion goes away, and when it does the fight will be over, as it is in Scandinavia.
A skeptic might suggest that turning America into Scandinavia, as far as religion goes, is an outsized goal, more like a delusion, for this group as they sit hunched over their computers shooting intemperate comments back and forth at each other all day. Or in poor Stanyard's case, all night.

There's a feverish, terrarium-like and oxygen-starved quality to this world of online Darwinists and atheists. It could only be sustained by the isolation of the Internet. They don't seem to realize that the public accepts Darwinism to the extent it does -- which is not much -- primarily because of what William James would call the sheer, simple "prestige" that the opinion grants. Arguments and evidence have little to do with it.

The prestige of Darwinism is not going to be affected by how the battle between Jerry Coyne and the NCSE turns out. New Atheist arguments are hobbled by the same isolation from what people think and feel. I have not yet read anything by any of these gentlemen or ladies, whether the open haters or the quiet disdainers, that conveys anything like a real comprehension of religious feeling or thought.

Even as they fight over the most effective way to relate to "religion," the open atheists and the accomodationists speak of an abstraction, a cartoon, that no actual religious person would recognize. No one is going to be persuaded if he doesn't already wish to be persuaded for other personal reasons. No faith is under threat from the likes of Jerry Coyne.




TOPICS: Education; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: atheism; atheists; darwin; evolution; gagdadbob; onecosmosblog
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To: boatbums
It's up to you to take that step of faith.

I have taken that step of faith, many times actually, and found the answer wanting. To use your analogy, like sitting down, only to find that the chair was pulled out from under me.

Now I look before I sit down to make sure the chair is there.

3,121 posted on 06/13/2011 6:01:47 AM PDT by LeGrande ("life's tough; it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne)
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To: AndrewC
But I also know that you were still grousing about the Bible which is not an atheist tome and it is neither mentioned in the title nor contained in the article. So stop grousing(unless you believe in it).

Fine. Then prove (or at least provide some evidence) that there is a God or run away. I know you have no evidence (or proof) all you have is the words of a bunch of Jews. I point out the flaws in the Bible because that is the only argument that you have that there is a God.

3,122 posted on 06/13/2011 6:10:41 AM PDT by LeGrande ("life's tough; it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
Guess not. Hank

They may have been busy this weekend.

3,123 posted on 06/13/2011 6:15:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: getoffmylawn
There’s lots of wisdom in there for us to keep in mind.

Like THIS idiotic claim?

Their theology even holds them blameless, they can commit no sin because they are Saved by the Blood of Christ.

3,124 posted on 06/13/2011 6:16:25 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: getoffmylawn
I love the fact Christianity is NOT about a book. It's about a way we should treat each other based on an example given to us by this LOVE coming to us in the form of a man.

Me, too!

John 6:28-29 (niv)

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”


3,125 posted on 06/13/2011 6:19:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: getoffmylawn
You know, you folks are really nasty human beings.
Each of your posts is full of personal attacks.

HMMmm...

I'll have to keep this in mind.

3,126 posted on 06/13/2011 6:20:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Cronos
Each of your posts is full of personal attacks

Exactly -- and yet they are the first to complain about "personal attacks" when one uses their tactics against them. Pompous pharisees

InDEED!!!


Luke 18:9-14

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable:

“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

3,127 posted on 06/13/2011 6:25:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; LeGrande
Yep. I think that's an accurate description of the "bahble bleavin" born againers. They sure do act that way on a very consistent basis. The goofs think they "know" they're already saved so it doesn't matter how much they fail to emulate Christ.

They can be as nasty and hateful as they want to be towards their fellow man, and they "know" God has already forgiven them. The pages of this forum are flooded with examples of the ugly hate that seems to go hand in hand with the born againers.

There is no LOVE. There is no Christ. There's just their Magic Book and all be damned that believe every word written in it.

3,128 posted on 06/13/2011 6:26:21 AM PDT by getoffmylawn ("In what respect, Charlie?" <--- 100% stone idiot)
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To: Cronos
They also reduce God to just a book, they reduce the Word of God to just the Written Word.

Instead of showing by example, instead of talking about what they believe, they attack

Amen, Brother!

I just HATE when they do that!

3,129 posted on 06/13/2011 6:27:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Cronos
The Written Word, being written in man's language is open to flawed interpretation as we witness, while in orthodoxy the interpretation of the Written Word is found.

Amen, Brother!

We'll tell 'em what it means!

3,130 posted on 06/13/2011 6:29:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: getoffmylawn

... should read “There’s just their Magic Book and all be damned that DON’T believe every word written in it.”


3,131 posted on 06/13/2011 6:29:23 AM PDT by getoffmylawn ("In what respect, Charlie?" <--- 100% stone idiot)
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To: getoffmylawn

... should read “There’s just their Magic Book and all be damned that DON’T believe every word written in it.”


3,132 posted on 06/13/2011 6:29:36 AM PDT by getoffmylawn ("In what respect, Charlie?" <--- 100% stone idiot)
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To: Cronos
...we know that Judaism has, ah, evolved a lot in its understanding of the biblical texts over the past 1800 years -

HMMmm...

3,133 posted on 06/13/2011 6:30:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: kosta50
And her in-your-face attitude doesn't help in that regard because it's not constructive.

Amen, BROTHER!!

I just REALLY hate when THAT happens!

3,134 posted on 06/13/2011 6:31:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: kosta50

Once, I was called ugly by a toad.


3,135 posted on 06/13/2011 6:32:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: LeGrande
Hmm, half of me believes that Born Againers believe that everyone is a sinner and condemned to death and eternal damnation.

Where do those fools GET that stuff??


John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

3,136 posted on 06/13/2011 6:34:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: LeGrande
Take your pick : )

I appears that you are double minded.

3,137 posted on 06/13/2011 6:35:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: LeGrande
Take your pick : )

It appears that you are double minded.

3,138 posted on 06/13/2011 6:35:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
It appears that you are double minded.

It appears that you are a double poster.

And comprehension impaired.

3,139 posted on 06/13/2011 6:40:44 AM PDT by LeGrande ("life's tough; it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne)
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To: Elsie; getoffmylawn; kosta50
not "we", never "I", rather Christ's message, passed down through the apostles is the centre of orthodoxy. Christ is the Word.
3,140 posted on 06/13/2011 6:42:23 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrz&#261;szcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego s&#322;ynie.)
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