Leftwing Hypocrisy on Standing Armies Used Against Citizens

Conservative Examiner ^ | 4/14/2010 | Anthony G. Martin

[Welshman007]

In the current controversy over the 80,000-troop 'Consequence Management Response Force' that is charged in part with 'helping with civil unrest,' the hypocrisy of the Leftwing has become abundantly clear when it comes to standing armies being used against American citizens.

The program was planned and the first stage was implemented under the administration of George W. Bush. At that time the program involved only one brigade of the 3rd infantry at Fort Stewart.

Since 2008 the program has been expanded to include personnel from all branches of the military, far beyond Fort Stewart, and far beyond the meager 6000 troops or so that were initially part of the plan.

The Leftwing, however, claims that Americans should not be worried, that this program is designed only to serve the citizens in the event of a major, catastrophic national disaster--although the plan itself states plainly that part of its role is to 'help with civil unrest.'

[gargoyle]

...I assume that “BOTH PARTIES” are the left and right wings of the One Party. Fortunately, the people have finally decided that we need a two or three party system

[ROTB]

Gilbo_3 : Despite your great fondness for Luke 22:36, the heart of the New Testament is Love, and fights that are spiritual, not physical. It might be possible to make a case for personal self-defense against random violent riffraff per Luke 22:36, but I doubt you could for armed revolt against the government, whether started by militias, or by government persecution, given Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2:13. I have no doubt that you and 90 million gun toting patriots can overthrow 3 million government agents. They don’t have a chance. Turkey shoot. Spam they would be. However, you’re forgetting that the last thing Russia/China will want/allow is a country where the conservative majority is in complete control. They will nuke us during the chaos. You and the 90 million can definitely take the country back. The issue is, external attack, during the transition.

Kartographer: You finished a list of Old Testament warriors with the quote, “Better a death as those of Masadah than those of Dachau.” Again, Gun slinging Americana with all it’s boldness is not Christianity. Rebelling against authorities is rebellion against God per Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2:13. Read what I wrote about armed revolt to Gilbo_3. You can win, no question. But Russia/China can take us out during the chaos of your certain victory.

95B30: You asked “So you will just knuckle under to the regime?” and my response is, I am working for Christian revival, which is the only true solution to tyranny. The whole reason the Leftists lie, kill babies, need felons to vote for them, are lazy, etc... is they don’t fear God. Plenty of Christian revivals have happened. Why not now? Your guns are as useless against tyranny as the spears and arrows of Israel’s soldiers against Babylon.

Clump : Perhaps if the British soldiers of the Revolutionary War acted like the honor-less lawless animals they were portrayed as in the movie “The Patriot”, that would remove any sin from fighting against them. I don’t know. What I do know is that this is the 21st century, and the last thing Russia/China would want, is for their plants/stooges to be deposed by armed revolt by this countries conservative majority. It would mean they would be under us decisively for the next 60+ years. They would be FOOLS to allow that to happen, and not take advantage of the chaos, and finish us off. They are not fools. You can live under tyranny. Or you can work for Christian revival. But trusting your guns, more than God’s way, will mean the end of this country.

Eagle Eye : Every translation of Romans 13 I read at http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2013&version=NLT makes it clear that GOVERNMENT is who we are to submit to. Even if that was not the case, you still need to show how 1 Peter 2:13 and Matthew 22:21 don’t compel our submission to government.

OneWingedShark : You asked, “Does that absolve you, as a man [I’m assuming], from your duty to [protect] your family? If so, why?” I protect my loved ones by working for Christian revival, just as this country has had many times in it’s history. Not impossible. Revival means the end of sin in the church, and postponement of judgment. You also said, “But the violence that will happen when the government collapses will be random.” I’m not saying not to defend against randoms. What I am saying is, armed revolt against the government will invite China/Russia to attack decisively during the chaos. The bible verse I cited as reminiscent of what you are saying is, “So these officials went to the king and said, “Sir, this man must die! That kind of talk will undermine the morale of the few fighting men we have left, as well as that of all the people. This man is a traitor!” and it is Jeremiah 38:4 where Jeremiah is being castigated for Jeremiah 38:3. You are echoing the protests of the people of Israel that wanted to take up arms, rather than repent and serve the Babylonians. Classic mistake you are making wanting to fight when you should repent to God and serve who God has placed over you.

The order is:

1) armed revolt (90 million patriots vs. 3 million government soldiers/agents )
2) patriots win
3) chaos
4) China/Russia attack

It’s the perfect time for China/Russia/NorthKoreato wipe us out.

The sin and faithlessness among Christians has made the Leftists bold and evil. But God’s judgment now is the same as it is was back in Old Testament days: A result of the sin of believers, not heathen.

“If MY PEOPLE, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
2 Chronicles 7:14

It’s up to Christians. Not the heathen.

Are you Christians or heathen? If you are heathen, pardon me for wasting your time, though it should be plain to all of you that the chaos of your revolt will INVITE China/Russia to attack.

What’s the plan for handling China/Russia in the hours of transition from Obama to you? If you don’t have that worked out, then armed revolt is not wise.

[Kartographer]

A rebellion against a Godless government I believe is not only permitted, but required by all believers. I remind you that the Maccabees led a rebellion against an idol worshiping government and reestablished and ruled a free Jewish state, the first for four and a half centuries. Your fear of Russia and China shows the weakness of your faith. I have the faith that God will give us the strength and the power to defeat all our enemies if we have faith and STAND. Every time Israel has been reborn GOD has required the faithful to STAND and shed their blood to make it happen. In 1948 after suffering great atrocities and suffering GOD only allowed the Jewish people to restore the nation of Israel through strenght of arms. They did this in rebelion against the British who ruled Palestine at the time. It was through their courage and willingness to FIGHT that the nation of Israel was reborn. Did they pray for God to help them in their fight yes, but God still required them to STAND. The Jews at the time stood a beat and scattered people. They faced odds that to every military thinking man of the day seem impossible. They were not only surrounded by their enemies, but their enemies lived among them. The enemies had trained and equiped standing armies and out number them 5 to 1 and yet they prevailed. I have the faith that if our cause is just that God will aid us no matter who or how many the enemy if we but STAND. The nation of Israel was reborn from the spirit of Masadah not he suffering Dachau.

Bow if you will to a ungodly government, but as for me I will stand.

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

[ROTB]

>A rebellion against a Godless government I believe is not
>only permitted, but required by all believers.

Chapter and verse in the Bible please. The Roman empire the day Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2:13 was written was far more godless and violent than ours.

>I remind you that the Maccabees led a rebellion against an
>idol worshiping government and reestablished and ruled a
>free Jewish state, the first for four and a half
>centuries.

Different covenant. Here in the new covenant, our fight is spiritual per Ephesians 6:12. http://bible.cc/ephesians/6-12.htm

>Your fear of Russia and China shows the weakness of your
>faith.

Nobody has given logistics on how a successful revolt by the 90 million patriots won’t invite attack by China/Russia during the ensuing chaos. There must be a transfer of power, a period where neither Obama nor the patriots rule. During THAT period is when they will attack us. At that moment we are defenseless. You still have not said a word to address this.

>I have the faith that God will give us the strength and
>the power to defeat all our enemies if we have faith and
>STAND.

Zeal without knowledge. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%2010:2&version=KJV;NLT There is too much sin in the church. Major lesson of the Old Testament for us today is that when Israel(America) obeys God, God puts down the Babylonians, Chaldeans, Ammonites (China|Russia|NorthKorea). We have enemies BECAUSE of sin in the church. The churches should be filtering sin FROM society, not be polluting it with more sin. Christians are lying, whoring, trecharous, evildoers.

>Every time Israel has been reborn GOD has required the
>faithful to STAND and shed their blood to make it happen.

Different covenants. Israels fight under the old covenant was physical, ours is spiritual in the New.

>The nation of Israel was reborn from the spirit of Masadah
>not he suffering Dachau.

Heh. You’re the one bringing certain defeat if you are successful in fomenting rebellion. I have been and will be working for a Christian revival, which will transform my enemies into my forever family.

So, what’s your plan for making sure Russia and China don’t attack after your successful revolt?

[Gilbo_3]

So, what’s your plan for making sure Russia and China don’t attack after your successful revolt?

why do you fear the commies without more than the commies within ???

if the reds decide to nuke us, every last one of us, what do they gain ???

what can we lose ???

my faith in the Reign of Lord Jesus syas 'bring it on' and get it over with if thats the case...

revival and repentence are needed by all, I got mine, no need to grovel to a godless wannabe because make no mistake, before all is said and done we will be required to bow to Baal in this country is we dont stand for Jesus...

[stephenjohnbanker]

“However, you’re forgetting that the last thing Russia/China will want/allow is a country where the conservative majority is in complete control. They will nuke us during the chaos. You and the 90 million can definitely take the country back. The issue is, external attack, during the transition.”

China has no reason to attack us. They would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. I have lived in Asia, and done business with the Chinese. They have no such intentions. What would be their motive?

Do you think the military would not use nukes to defend against an agression by China or Russia? Do you think they would defer to a wannabe, third rate fascist dictator(OBAMA) whom they now know despises the country he is leading? Do you think that in this day and age, the military, CIA, et al, has no contingency plan if, at some moment, the POTUS goes “bonkers” ?

I am no expert in biblical exegesis, but do you believe God would wnt us to be ruled by Godless, evil, murderous men? Find me a passage that would indicate same.

This is a great thread, by the way.

[Gilbo_3]

always a great thread indeed when we hafta get out books and look stuff up...ive got my 'word for the day' now...

good point on the chicoms, unless they dont wanna get the bennies of the collateral securing their loans, why radiate the place from sea to shining sea ???

if they will simply nuke the cities, well, ahem, theyd be close to doing us a favor wouldnt they ???

[stephenjohnbanker]

“if they will simply nuke the cities, well, ahem, theyd be close to doing us a favor wouldnt they ??? “

SJB Hmmmmm......maybe we can make a deal with them.... ;-)

[Kartographer]

"A rebellion against a Godless government I believe is not only permitted, but required by all believers. Chapter and verse in the Bible please."

"Administer justice every morning; rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed, or my wrath will break out and burn like fire because of the evil you have done — burn with no one to quench it." Jeremiah 21:12

Per your bible view since The United States was created from an un-Godly act, as we revolted against the tyranny of the lawful British government, The United States has no right to exists and was created in sin, so should it not be punish for its sin of not bowing to the lawful government, but revolting against it?

I have to wonder what would you had said to the men who stood at Lexington and Concord? What advise would you have given to Washington at Valley Forge? I ask would you have cheered for joy on July 4, 1776 our would you had proclaimed our doom and pronounced our our Declaration of Independance from the lawful government as un-Godly and a sin?

“Nobody has given logistics on how a successful revolt by the 90 million patriots won’t invite attack by China/Russia during the ensuing chaos. There must be a transfer of power, a period where neither Obama nor the patriots rule. During THAT period is when they will attack us. At that moment we are defenseless. You still have not said a word to address this.”

I give you proof of what happens when those with just cause rise up and fight for what is right. The United States of America and the modern nation of Israel. Both born from revolt and from making actual war against unjust governments. And both wars won against powers who on paper were many many many times greater in strength.

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

[mkjessup]

China has no reason to attack us. They would be cutting off their nose to spite their face. I have lived in Asia, and done business with the Chinese. They have no such intentions. What would be their motive?

The same motive as the Japanese had in late 1941, the ChiComs would nuke us in an instant if they thought they could eliminate most of our nuclear retaliatory capability and then hold our cities hostage. The way it works:

Beijing launches surprise nuclear strike (perhaps in tandem with the Russians) on U.S. strategic assets, i.e., missile silos, airfields, naval bases (specifically Trident sub bases), and then follow up with a demand for unconditional surrender, which if complied with, will spare U.S. cities from nuclear attack. The threat is clear: retaliate instead of surrender and your population will be vaporized just like your now smoldering military assets. So now to answer the question "what would Communist China gain"? They gain complete hegemony over all of the Pacific, from Japan and points north, all the way down to Australia and the arctic polar region. They sweep the board while taking little if any serious damage. If such a hypothetical attack were jointly planned and executed with the Russians, the pay off for Moscow would be to reassert their power in Europe, use the threat of tactical nukes to bring their former satellites back into the fold, and without the U.S. backing up NATO, most if not all of Europe would fold up like a cheap suit inside of 30 days, as I see it.

Do you think the military would not use nukes to defend against an aggression by China or Russia? Do you think they would defer to a wannabe, third rate fascist dictator (OBAMA) whom they now know despises the country he is leading? Do you think that in this day and age, the military, CIA, et al, has no contingency plan if, at some moment, the POTUS goes “bonkers” ?

Those are excellent questions. While I have no actual knowledge of any hypothetical plans by either the military and/or the CIA to seize control of the Executive Branch, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be possible to do so.

To explore this a bit: if, in the early moments of an incoming nuclear attack it appeared that the President (any President) was essentially refusing to defend the Nation, the simplest solution is probably the one which would be employed: somebody will just shoot the sonuvabitch right between the eyes and assume command and control of the presidential nuclear codes (aka 'the football'), any questions raised about what happened to the Chief Executive will be written off with "he didn't survive the attack".

WITH the nuclear codes, retaliation would be delayed perhaps, but still implemented. WITHOUT the codes, it becomes more unpredictable due to the institutional use of PALs throughout the nuclear inventory (PAL = Permissive Action Links), which make it impossible to arm and detonate a nuclear device without express presidential authority. There has always been speculation as to whether or not SSBN Captains (missile sub commanders) have the authority to act independently if communications between their boat and Washington are disrupted. I suspect there is actually no such mechanism for operating outside of the Navy's TCCD (Trident Coded Control Device) just another name for 'PAL', TCCD has been in place since 1997.

PALs are more than just a little add-on box to a nuclear warhead, they act not only as a lock on the use of the weapon but are capable of disabling the weapon if tampered with (certain versions, unsure if that feature was fully implemented). Nuclear physicist Dr. Peter Zimmerman once quoted a weapons designer as saying that "bypassing a PAL is about as complex as performing a tonsillectomy while entering the patient from the wrong end."

I am no expert in biblical exegesis, but do you believe God would want us to be ruled by Godless, evil, murderous men? Find me a passage that would indicate same.

"And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right, having been filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, iniquity, covetousness, malice, being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, proud, braggarts, devising evil things, disobedient to parents, without discernment, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful, who knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also approve those practicing them."
- Romans 1:28-32

It would appear that when a Nation turns it's back on God, God has a method of dealing with it appropriately.

Hope your weekend is good SJB!

[stephenjohnbanker]

A very thoughtful post.

Thanks.

[stephenjohnbanker]

“It would appear that when a Nation turns it’s back on God, God has a method of dealing with it appropriately.”

God was willing to spare a city for just 10 good men. We have maybe 80 to 100 million.

[OneWingedShark]

ROTB, you are forgetting something about this country.
It was founded on the idea that We the People are the legitimate source of the power of governance; that is to say that ultimately the Government answers to the people in the US.

While there is considerable evidence for submitting to authorities, and I am not arguing that there is not, there is considerable evidence that [in the US] the people have the right to take up arms against a corrupt or ineffective government. {The Declaration of Independence.}

You didn’t answer my citing of Esther, wherein the law allowed them to defend themselves from the people who were [legally] attacking them. {And God used that to destroy some of their enemies.} (In other words: How is the situation in Esther morally or legally different then the situation in America.)

I would like to note that “turn the other cheek” in NOT the same as “take it in the ass.” Yes, we Christians are to pray for those that hurt us; we are to be forgiving (as we were forgiven). In short, we are to become like Jesus.. but Jesus was NOT ‘weak,’ nor was he always non-violent: He took a scourge and [forcibly] drove the money-changers out of the temple. He did this in zealousness for God’s temple. As Christians, we believe that God’s temple is our own bodies; how then is the “health-care reform,” wherein the government evaluates and deals based on one’s body, any different then the money-changers?

[stephenjohnbanker]

“there is considerable evidence that [in the US] the people have the right to take up arms against a corrupt or ineffective government. {The Declaration of Independence.}”

Exactly.

“but Jesus was NOT ‘weak,’ nor was he always non-violent: He took a scourge and [forcibly] drove the money-changers out of the temple. He did this in zealousness for God’s temple.”

And there is ample evidence that Obama regards conservative, God-fearing Christians as domestic enemies.

[Gilbo_3]

note that “turn the other cheek” in NOT the same as “take it in the ass.”

my daughter thought i was laughing at her when i read that...

my heart says that the 'smite' on the cheek was not a life threatening ordeal, so one MUST turn the other...on the other hand, the Lord was a carpenter, and in the day, a carpenter was a MAN, so id imagine when He weilded a whip with fire in His eyes for the Glory of God, it was an amazing thing to behold...prolly lots of dirty drawers fleeing the temple that day...

no doubt that restraint is ordered for the followers of Christ, and im one of those who used to ask 'is it time yet ?'...ive since come to the realization that we will all know when its time, and that will be when its undeniably clear that we must either *bow* to the 'world' or stand for our eternal KING, MASTER and CREATOR and allow Him to guide the arrows while simply using us for HIS GLORY... now back to the whole damp panties over the nukes of china, again, i say, if that is the result of using the rod at home, so be it...

the larger question is whats to stop em ifn they are witnessing the same essential opportunity due to weakness of the totus ???

prayer that the fed boogymen have these contingency plans and the stones to take charge...

[NFHale]

“...ive since come to the realization that we will all know when its time, and that will be when its undeniably clear that we must either *bow* to the ‘world’ or stand for our eternal KING...”

Pardon me for jumping in late, brother Gilbo_3... I’ll just say this, after monitoring this thread...and it’s strictly my opinion.

Regarding the back-and-forth I’m seeing here with ROTB and others, between standing up or laying down (and maybe I’ve misread it, and if so, my apologies):

God did not put us here to be “suicided” by refusal to defend our lives. Suicide is self-murder, and murder is a sin. Therefore, to NOT defend one’s life, which is a gift from God, is to spit on the gift that the Lord provided to us. Likewise, to not defend the innocent/defenseless around you, We’re here in this place, in this time, at this moment for very specific purposes; most of us never know what that purpose is, indeed, whether we even ACHIEVE that purpose, until after we’ve gone home to the Lord.

This Country of ours, this wonderful, incredibly blessed land that has flourished for well over 400+ years in one form or another, was not an accident; it wasn’t just some experiment that a bunch of people thought up one day and tried to put into practice; I believe this Country of ours was the result of the focused, directed will of God, touching the lives of multiple peoples from all corners of the Earth - Go here, make this happen, and live as intended. He put the Founding Fathers here, in that place, at that exact time, to make THIS happen.

I’m not a theologian, I’m not as well-versed in the Bible (tho’ I have read it) as some folks out here, but I do believe that the Lord made this place as THE refuge of the downtrodden, the whipped, the scourged, the oppressed, and the beaten - as THE place they could retreat to, gather up their courage, and place their backs to the Last Wall and say for the rest of the world to hear: “Not Here, by God, Not Here, and Not Ever AGAIN!”

If we let this go, if we let this roll under the waves and slip away from us forever, we are guilty of much more than just surrender; we’re guilty of misusing God’s gift to us.

And it may be that in God’s plan, this DOES go away; but I don’t believe that He wants us to just roll over and LET it happen without a struggle.

That’s how I see it. I won’t argue what Paul said in THIS letter, or what Isaiah said here, or what it says in Psalms; it solves nothing for me.

I see the freight train coming, and the choices I have are these:

1. I can stand on the tracks and accept it as inevitable (indeed, death is inevitable for us all; but it’s what you DIE for that counts, and while you live, it’s HOW you spend the time that God gave you that matters).

2. I can move aside and hope it passes me and live out the rest of my life hoping that the train never reaches MY home, my life, my little corner of the world...

or

3. I can do all that is in my power to sabotage, derail, and otherwise impede that train from destroying all that I love, hold dear and hold sacred, as hundreds of thousands of other American Men have done throughout our brief star-burst of light in an otherwise crappy world.

For the record, Options 1 and 2 are not options for me.

Just the way I see it...

LFOD

[Gilbo_3]

glad you stopped by Sir, most excellent addition to the thread...

[NFHale]

Always got your six, my friend...

[stephenjohnbanker]

“I see the freight train coming, and the choices I have are these:

1. I can stand on the tracks and accept it as inevitable (indeed, death is inevitable for us all; but it’s what you DIE for that counts, and while you live, it’s HOW you spend the time that God gave you that matters).

2. I can move aside and hope it passes me and live out the rest of my life hoping that the train never reaches MY home, my life, my little corner of the world...

or

3. I can do all that is in my power to sabotage, derail, and otherwise impede that train from destroying all that I love, hold dear and hold sacred, as hundreds of thousands of other American Men have done throughout our brief star-burst of light in an otherwise crappy world.

For the record, Options 1 and 2 are not options for me.”

I will happily choose #3.

[NFHale]

RE Choose:
I submit that being on this site you already have...

LFOD, brother.