How Much Ammo, and Why?

Vanity | 3/8/10 | dagogo redux

[dagogo redux]

With all the talk about the Second Amendment, the ammo shortage, and about what might lie ahead after November (or before), I thought it might be a reasonable vanity post to ask what sorts of quantities of ammo are practical for a person or household to stock for an “emergency”.

A few months ago, for instance, someone here said 6000 rounds for each firearm. More recently, someone said (I think) 3000 rounds for one’s primary battle rifle, and 500 rounds for each handgun and shot gun.

Answers may depend on many factors: for instance, the scenario you think most likely, or most worthwhile to prepare for, as well as the role you might see yourself playing in such a scenario (home defense, active maneuvers, underground resistance, etc), so posting these thoughts may help explain your reasoning.

"The more the merrier,” will occur to many, but practical answers would be more helpful. And HOW did you arrived at your answer - is it calculated in some way, something you were taught, a hunch, collected wisdom, etc? If you say 5000 rounds, why not 2500 or 10,000, etc. and what do you base that on?

Thanks for tolerating another vanity, and thanks for educating us with your answers.

[OKSooner]

What are you talkin’ about, Tex? You’re the one who didn’t get the joke. :)

[Waverunner]

I’m speedy gonzales myself - In Florida we have an advantage - Alligators love Zombies

[Citizen Tom Paine]

Look at how many rounds it takes to shoot out your barrel. Stop somewhere short of that. I believe that you will never wear out a .22 calibre barrel.

[GonzoGOP]

Having plan for each one of those scenarios would probably be one of the best ways to get ready.

Having a plan in advance is critical. If there are riots in the street and the world is coming apart you will not be thinking clearly. That is why the military does general quarters drills all the time. So that your reactions in an emergency are already thought out beforehand and you are just acting out a pre planned response.

One of the hardest things I had to do was to convince my wife that in a SHTF situation not to wait for me to get home from work. If the time comes to run just get he kids clear and meet up at a pre arranged location. My dad got caught downtown in the '68 riots and my mom was home with three older kids and a baby (me). The fist time I left my oldest son at daycare, rather than with a family member, was 9/11/01. Suffice to say that by the time I got to work my normal parental separation anxiety was slightly higher than when I dropped him off an hour before. It was events like that which convinced me that riots and emergencies don't make an appointment or start when the whole family is together and at home.

Also keep at least half a tank of gas in each of the cars. In an absolute worst case under those circumstances you can siphon the gas from one into the other and still have a full tank for the run to the hills.

There have been a lot of jokes about when the zombies come you want to have one slow runner to allow you to get away. It is the people without a plan who will be the "Slow Runners" in a SHTF situation. So first come up with a plan.

Then check if your plan is realistic. One of the earlier posts talked about taking ammunition from the military. My personal plan of things to do in order to ensure a long happy life does not involve starting a firefight with the US Marine Corps or Army Rangers. Don't invest in 10,000 pounds of gear and munitions and then expect to make a run for it. Don't expect to sneak inconspicuously away with a scoped 30-06 hunting rifle and two bandoleers of ammo strapped over your shoulders. Sure that 1916 Lugar might be the most expensive piece in your collection, but it jams when even a little dirty and you can't get parts for it if you need them. If you are planning to fort up against the entire world for three years, be sure you aren't dependent on city water supplies.

Then equip yourself in accordance with the plan. Get good gear, and be sure you know how to use it. If you aren't trained in knife fighting a Swiss army knife may be a lot more useful to you than a k-bar.

Be sure you know how to use the stuff you have. Having an arsenal of hundreds of weapons won't be nearly as useful as one or two high quality pieces that you are comfortable and familiar with. Get to the range. Be able to take a snap shot and at least hit a man sized target. Be able to load your weapon in the dark, especially if you favor a revolver or don't have a bunch of spare mags. Learn to shoot weak handed. You don't need to be an expert, but your life may depend on being able to drive and shoot at the same time.

If you have camping gear be sure you know how use it. Be able to set up the tent, use the camp stove, and the proper way to dig a pit toilet. And before you laugh that last one can be very important when Aunt Mary's water gets shut off. Even if Aunt Mary has a well it probably has an electric pump. Or it might have a limited supply of water and more than the typical load of guests. Flushing ranks lower on the list than drinking, cooking, washing, watering the crops, and just about everything else.

And that brings up another great piece of gear to pick up. Head over to the surplus store and get of those fold up army shovels (entrenching tool). I have had mine in the car for so long I forgot to put it on the list. Great for getting your car unstuck on a dirt road, clearing a snow drift, digging the aforementioned pit toilet. And in a pinch it can be used to split a zombies head clean in half.

[FLAMING DEATH]

While the word "hoarding" might have the connotation that you suggest, it's denotation is quite neutral, and different from what you said. Hoarding is a general term for the accumulation of food or other items. In fact, hoarding and stockpiling are synonyms.

Greed never enters into it if you to decide to put back that which you legally earned, no matter the words used to describe it. It is, as you said, self-sufficiency.

Also, I doubt that anyone who suspected someone was "hoarding" would be satisfied and forget the whole thing if they were told it was not "hoarding" but merely "stockpiling". Word games won't satisfy those who will want to make trouble for you. Best bet is, if the SHTF, to just keep your mouth shut if you are stockpiling or hoarding anything.

[equalitybeforethelaw]

I’m speedy gonzales myself - In Florida we have an advantage - Alligators love Zombies

And no hills to speak of, that makes running a whole lot easier. The downside to no hills is the absence of easily defendable terrain. You may need some concertina to channelize the zombies into your fields of fire. Claymores would be helpful here as well. Just be sure to blow them up beyond the rotting flesh fallout point. I have heard you can get zombiefied by simple contact with their rotting flesh and drool (this claim is unsourced).

[FLAMING DEATH]

I had a friend who “tested” a Marlin Model 60 to failure. He estimated that he’d pumped close to 30-40K rounds through it without cleaning it. It never failed to fire until the mechanism became so worn that it no longer lined up or fed rounds correctly, then he tossed it and bought another one.

The bore on that thing always looked as it did the day he got it. Didn’t wear appreciably at all.

If you take care of them and oil them occasionally, just about any .22 will last longer than you will.

[SIDENET]

bfl.

[GonzoGOP]

The downside to no hills is the absence of easily defensible terrain.

Florida has great defensible terrain. Just ask any Vietnam vet about how miserable it is advancing through flooded lowlands. Any low spot becomes an instant water barrier, there are also the gators mentioned earlier. Every road had a million bridges just crying out for ambush site. And then there is quicksand (quickmud?). Until i went to Florida I thought that was just something from cartoons! Also there are the big zombie eating pythons.

And in Florida they have those giant flying cockroaches, those could probably just pick up a zombie and carry them away. Heck those things could pick up a Zamboni and carry it away!

[xmission]

I think people go way overboard on these things. Try to imagine a scenario in which you personally need and use several thousand rounds. In that kind of battle, would you really survive long enough to fire several thousand rounds? And when you’re dead, now the bad guys have all that’s left of your ammo.

If you plan on practicing, you can go through a whole load of ammo in a year.

I know that I went through at least 3-4 thousand rounds last year, counting rifle and handgun.

[BerserkPatriot]

Thank you, I’ve started reading some of these resources and they are great for getting one into the proper mindset.

I’m liking you tagline there.

[Secret Agent Man]

“Synonyms” does not mean they are identical, they hold similar attributes but can have some distinct use differences.

Different mental images appear when you describe either “personal preparation” and “stockpiling” versus “hoarding”. There is a negative connotation to “hoarding” as to opposed to a person building up provisions before a disaster, or for winter. They don’t have “stockpiling limits”, they are “hoarding limits”. Anytime a disaster hits they talk about people “hoarding” not those evil people who stockpiled their supplies a year or two in advance.

Please tell me you understand the point, I’m getting rather tired of having to explain everything to the nth degree here.

[Secret Agent Man]

And you are totally correct about not saying anything in the first place to anyone else about what you have or don’t have. It’s nobody else’s business.

[FLAMING DEATH]

Oh, I understand your point completely, SAM, but it’s like standing before the judge and saying that you didn’t kill some one, you merely murdered them.

I just think its a minor point, overall. Don’t throw around either term while talking with people around you. Substituting “stockpiling” for “hoarding” isn’t going to make the baddies go away.

Likewise, please tell me that YOU understand the point that you and I are talking about the exact same thing, we just disagree on the wording, which is a rather silly point anyway, since it’s not something that I ever suggested you throw around in casual conversation with anyone.

And, as much as you hate “explaining”, remember it IS a discussion forum where people share their views, and I have as much right to share mine as you do yours. You jumped into the conversation of your own volition, but you’re welcome to stop responding if you don’t want to take it to the nth degree. That’s fine with me either way.

Have a good one.

[FLAMING DEATH]

FerFal’s stuff is amazing.

It’s like a how-to manual for surviving a collapse.

Thing is, it won’t be the same here. Argentina didn’t have as far to fall as America does.

[Secret Agent Man]

IF you can’t see your own example there is a HUGE difference between “killing” and “murdering”, from both a moral and legal perspective, friend, we can’t talk about anything anymore. You think a judge doesn’t know the huge difference in the two terms?

Killing someone is NOT the same thing as MURDERING someone. That is why the commandment dealing with this is translated accurately as “Thou shalt not murder” or “Thou shalt not kill without just cause”. Killing someone, in self defense (ie a JUST reason) is completely opposite of killing someone UNJUSTLY (ie murder).

You picked a terrible example to try to make your case on.

[TexasRepublic]

I’m overstocked with a lifetime supply in case the ammo dries up forever, but let me ask you a practical question. If the worse civil scenario that you can ever imagine happens, how much ammo can you carry in a backpack? How many shots do you figure getting off before “they” get you? That’s how much you want as a minimum.

[SIDENET]

Rule #1: Cardio.

[FLAMING DEATH]

Not really. Would it be better to stand before a judge and say you killed someone or murdered someone? Would you REALLY have a preference? Think a judge or a prosecutor ISN’T going to see an admission of guilt in either statement?

Or maybe it would be better not to say anything at all if you didn’t have to?

You’re making it either-or. I’m saying it’s a false dichotomy. I don’t understand why you are still nitpicking about which words to use to incriminate yourself or to let people into your “business” when they didn’t have any need to be there.

I’m saying the WORD for it doesn’t matter. Keep quiet about it! Keep hoarding! Keep stockpiling! Keep whatever!

Besides, that was only one sentence in my post. The rest emphasized what I said before. Don’t dilute or distract from my original good advice...get what you need NOW, while the getting is good, and leave the wordsmithing to the liberals.

Have a good one.

[An Old Man]

If you use up 2000 rounds in battle and you are still alive the bad guys are really bad shots.

LOL

It don't work that way.