Posted on 12/29/2009 10:19:57 PM PST by myfreepress
Tonight was an interesting night at Bible study. Our discussion was about how God wants us to Pray and treat those in Authority over us.
We basically talked about how it is counterproductive for the Church to be at odds with civil Government. God has given the church spiritual authority, and the Government civil authority (Romans 13:1-8).
Romans 13:1-8
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
This raises some questions in my mind. What do we do when we disagree with those who have been appointed over us? What if the people appointed over us are of evil? Should we rebel against them and ignore this part.....
(Excerpt) Read more at myfreepress.net ...
Authority? Like a universal church authority or just the civil authority. Hard to admit to one without the other.
Well I believe Romans 13:1-8 clearly states what the Church has authority over, and what the Government has authority over. I didn’t write the Bible I just study it.
Second point. You do as Jesus did, never compromise with evil.
This passage sounds like a convenient capitulation to the Roman imperial state. Didn’t we do away with the idea of divine authority during the American revolution? Was rebelling against the British empire a sin?
Even when they are wrong? The Supreme Court ruled that killing babys was leagal. Are you comfortable with that? That decision was made by governing authorities. So was witch burning and inquisitions.
I think the point of Bible study tonight was to think about our representatives and instead of saying “you have to be against xyz because my beliefs demand it”, we should ask them what they need us to pray about for them. This will have them beside themselves.
I will say. I didn’t write the Bible I just study it. I don’t believe it is ok to have an abortion, but I also believe it is not ok to condemn another and not pray for them because they do. Prayer will be the only way to help our elected officials make the correct decisions.
I would agree with that. You should pray for your leaders no matter their party or ideology.
It was not. Don't expect too much reason from this point on.
Concerning these verses, I've never asked a pastor this question, but I should some day: In rebelling against the British, did our Founders rebel against God?
I’ve thought about this lately - and I’m wondering if our type of government, which is supposed to be a representative republic, which is self government, is viewed in a different way by God, than a monarchy or other rulership form.
Does that include Hitler?
I assumed they meant a government that does the right thing, but after searching and searching, I still can’t find anything that states that in the Bible. I guess I posted in search of someone who can point me to the section of the Bible that says “only if the government is just”
Does the Bible command Christians to "give unto evil?"
At the end of the article:
The "Authorized King James Version" reads (Romans 13:1), "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God." A translation comparison chart found at romans13.embassyofheaven.com, demonstrates how newer versions support obedience to government, however unconstitutional. The New American Bible (1970) reads, "Let everyone obey the authorities that are over him, for there is no authority except from God;" The Living Bible (1971) reads "Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there;" and Good News (1976), reads "Everyone must obey the state authorities, because no authority exists without God’s permission."
"However, in any unabridged English dictionary the word power can have a dozen different definitions," writes Williams. "The question is which should we apply to these words of Paul? The Greek word used in Romans 13 by Paul is exousia, which is defined: ‘power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases.’ It is translated as ‘right’ in Hebrews 13:10 and Revelations 22:14 and is translated as ‘liberty’ in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians (I Cor.8:9). In Plato’s notes, exousia means, ‘Freedom/power to do something.’
"The Greek word exousia is considered to be one of the strongest words in the Greek language representing the idea of liberty. Accepting the idea that Romans 13 is actually a statement by Paul in support of individual liberty, rather than a command to submit to authoritarian rulers, will be difficult for some pastors and Christians alike to admit," says Williams.
I don’t know. I guess the only way to find out is to pray and hope that God points us in the right direction. I know when the Bible was written the forms of Government ruling the writers of the Bible were far worse than the one we have today.
Good luck with that one.
I don’t think we should submit to Evil, but I do think it is our responsibility to seek the prayer needs of our foes and pray for them. Thank you for this post, I will study this further.
Just as the Egyptian slaves who traveled across the desert with Moses, we must have faith.
This opens a big can of worms, this does (and I even got into a discussion with my atheist brother about this this weekend). Here’s how I see it. The Bible does have stories of God fighting against the enemies of God and his people, God backing certain people. Would it not follow that God would call upon some of us to rise up and fight against evil, even if that evil is our own government?
This subject has had me tied up in knots as well. I have no respect for the current administration, and I want to do nothing but fight, fight, FIGHT!!
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