Posted on 03/03/2008 10:37:49 AM PST by Rebeleye
That's what Lincoln wanted to do... recolonize a portion of West Africa with American Negros. That's how the country of Liberia got started.
It wasn’t only about slavery. It was also about their rats. They were protecting their rats.
‘And I’m not a Southerner, and don’t own a version of the Stars and Bars.’
I’m not a Southerner either. But I own quite a few Dale Galleon prints worth big bucks, and they all have the Stars and Bars in them, at least the ones showing CSA scenes.
The problem with this is it doesn’t stop with the CSA flag.
The same people demanding this, also when you ask, want every CSA monument at Gettysburg removed, at Antietam removed, Shilo, Peteresburg, Hollywood Cemetary..pick a town, village or crossroads in Virginia for that matter.
They want to erase the Civil War, primarily to avoid discussing the fact 600,000 primarily ‘white guys’ died, 1.7 million primarily ‘white guys’ were crippled in that conflict.
It was about both.
The general issue was States Rights.
The particular issue was Slavery.
It could have been about taxation (Cf. Whiskey Rebellion) or any other conflict that had arisen and continue to arise between the States and the Federal Government.
Even today we are paying the price for the South choosing such low moral ground to test such an important Constitutional principle.
Oh, prolly not.... OTOH, the South had actual laws about such things, and they tried like hell to hang onto 'em. It was a whole different level.
Sounds like the Democrats today.
Only they want to surrender and allowing us to fall under dhimmitude.
Yes, it does. The times change, Democrats don’t.
Do you consider the stars ‘n stripes flag to just symbolize rebellion and treason against the United Kingdom?
Nope, sorry. It was slavery. Dressed up in the noble robes of States' Rights, but largely about the right of states to permit slavery.
Surely the Vice-President of the CSA knew what he was talking about when he said:
(Our new government's) foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery-subordination to the superior race-is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
But let's not take his word for it. South Carolina listed a Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union , in which they listed... the US Government's hostility to slavery.
They weren't the only ones, though. Georgia created a similiar document. It begins:
The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
Took them two whole sentences to get to the point.
Mississippi's was similarly direct, opening with:
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.
And finally - Texas, not to be outdone, wrote its own declaration.
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.
Look, I'm sympathetic to a bunch of noble freedom-fighters who recoil against Federal control and rebel in the name of liberty, but these guys weren't that. They were fighting to preserve their state's right to own slaves.
‘What do you mean?? Isn’t everyone from the North angelic while all us southerners are just downright EVIL?’
(chuckle)
Hardly. My mothers legal name was Dixie Sue....LOL!
I wonder if Mr Pitts wants her to change her legal name, given all the uproar about ‘legal names’ lately.
“...and get on with leading a redeemed life, like all of us need to.”
You really need to go find some smarter Yankees to this thread. You aren’t doing so well with what you’ve got so far.
Yes, we Southerners need to redeem ourselves so that we can still be considered Americans, isn’t that what you mean?
Treason
1. the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. a violation of allegiance to one’s sovereign or to one’s state.
3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
Lee nor any of the men who resigned their commissions and joined the CSA were committing treason. They did not seek to overthrow the government of the US. They sought to replace it with what they regarded as a more just government only on what they regarded as sovereign State soil. They did this openly and publicly so that their was no treason involved (see:Benedict Arnold). The issue of slavery was a cancer on the US political system from the start. It was the subject of several important compromises (see: Missouri Compromise) that sought to balance the economic needs of the South with the moral positions of the North. It is one of the tragedies of our history that we could not find another compromise that would have taken us another 50 years. By then, the development of the gasoline engine would have spelled the end of slavery as the overhead for maintaining slaves would have become so high as compared to maintaining machines (per unit of output/per unit of investment) that no one would have been able to competitively afford them.
No, a different part.
Somewhere in those penumbras Lee found a right to rebel against his country?
Hardly. Lee was under no illusions that the Southern actions were anything other than rebellion, and he certainly did not consider them legal. However, he chose rebellion and loyalty to Virginia over loyalty to his country.
What you're really saying, whether you know it or not, is -- He saw little virtue in useless butchery, rapine, deliberately making war on civilians, and wholesale destruction."
it was also suggested, prior to the olympics in atlanta in ‘96, that the world famous carving on the face of stone mountain either be covered, or sandblasted away..
These aholes need to get a damn life and some of them forget that Blacks and Whites fought on both sides of the War between the States. Hence the words Civil War, I get sick and tried of this s**t every damn election year!
Oh, and they get along just great in South Boston and Crown Heights, right?
Race relations in the South are better than anywhere else in the country. Why? Because we’ve been under the microscope for sixty years. The Federal government has made sure of that. Many Southern states, in 2008, STILL cannot do anything in terms of changing internal voting districts without having it be reviewed by a Federal judge.
The biggest racists I ever met were two guys from Pennsylvania—both Polish-descended, one from Johnstown and one from Erie. I heard those guys say stuff about Jews and blacks that my racist older brother would never say. When you come down here to the South, especially in more rural areas, you see white and black people living peacefully side by side, simply because “being neighborly” is something that’s ingrained in the culture.
I’m not saying it’s perfect by any means. We’ve still got racists—plenty of black and Hispanic ones in addition to the white ones. But we’ve had to LEARN to get along with each other down here, and all in all, we’ve done a good job.
}:-)4
I know.
Then again, if you look around Atlanta proper, you are hard pressed to find any reference to the time frame between 1850 and 1880.
And how did he whip the socks off armies that outnumbered his by sometimes as much as 4 to 1, with some regularity for about 3 years?
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