Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 4

PVDS = Paulus (Paul) van der Sloot (Joran's Father)
AVDS = Anita van der Sloot (Joran's Mother)
JVDS = Joran van der Sloot - 17 year old suspect
DK = Deepak Kalpoe - 21 year old suspect
SK = Satish Kalpoe - 19 year old suspect
MSM = Main Stream Media
Beth or BT = Beth Twitty (Natalee's Mother)
Jug or JT = Jug Twitty (Natalee's Step-Father - married to Beth)
Nat or NH = Natalee Holloway
GVS = Greta Van Susteren (FOX)
VDS = van der Sloot
LE = Law Enforcement
SG or SG's = Security Guards
MJ = Mickey John's (Security Guard)
SC = Steve Croes (Boat Deejay)
CC = Charles Croes (Owns Rental Cell Phone Co)
BOR = Bill O'Reilly (FOX)
NG = Nancy Grace (CNN)
HNN = Headline News Network
CNN = Cable News Network

Show/Interview Transcripts

Former Aruba Suspect Alleges Plot!
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 28, 2005

Transcript: Greta in Aruba
INTERVIEW WITH NADIRA RAMIREZ, SATISH AND DEEPAK KALPOE'S MOTHER
INTERVIEW WITH ANITA VAN DER SLOOT BEFORE PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT IS ARRESTED
INTERVIEW WITH RUFO SOLOGNIER, STEVE CROES' UNCLE
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 23, 2005

Transcript: Van der Sloots Speak
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 22, 2005

Beth Twitty: 'My Daughter Has Been Kidnapped'
This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," June 22, 2005

Natalee's Friends Go 'On the Record'
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 21, 2005

Natalee's Mother Won't Leave Without Her
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 20, 2005

Natalee's Stepfather Holds Out Hope
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 16, 2005

Holloway's Mother: 'My Daughter is Alive'
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 15, 2005

Tragic Trip?
This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," June 15, 2005

Searching for Natalee
This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," June 8, 2005

'On the Record' Exclusive
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 7, 2005

Some case info to go along with this map...
(as far as I know this is all correct)

http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif

The Island is 6 to 7 miles deep by about 20 miles long

B-1 = California Lighthouse - where the boys claim they took her first after leaving the Bar.

D-3 = #4 is the location of the 2 Marriott Hotels - where the 2 brothers (and now Joran) claim they dropped Joran and Natalee off after leaving the lighthouse - the 2 brothers claim they went home to Hooiberg after that.

D-3 = #19 is the location of the Holiday Inn where Natalee was staying.

G-5 = Where the red #2 marker is pointing to is the area that the Carlos & Charlie Bar is located

D-4 = Township of Montana is where Joran lives

F-7/8 = Hooiberg (Haystack Mountain) - The 2 Kalpoe brothers live in this area at the foot of the Haystack Mountian.

C-9 = By the Natural Bridge on the map is the location where the sharks hang out as they are fed at this location. This is the Shark Infested Feeding Area.

E-3 = Wetland in the Bird Sanctuary is the location where they found the Condoms/Condom Wrappers - Duct Tape (looked like black electrical tape to me) - Female Flowered Panties - and a String or Strap from a Bikini or Halter Top.

PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD
LARGE PICTURE FREE FOR DIAL UP ISP USERS.

I am asking that everyone either post just a link to the pictures they wish to share or reduce the size of the picture when you use the img src tag.

This will help greatly for us who are on Dial-up.

Examples

Just a link to a picture like this...(this is the simplest method)
http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif

or reduce this image size like this (you need to know HTML to do it this way)

I DO NOT HAVE A PING LIST AND I DO NOT WISH TO MAKE ONE

Just a reminder that...
THIS IS A NO LARGE
PICTURE POSTING THREAD
(please do not post large pictures on the thread - small pictures are fine - as well simple links to the pictures)

This is a discussion thread about the daily occurrences in the Natalee Holloway Case.
It is located in "Chat" on Free Republic
It is not a thread for bashing Natalee - Natalee's Family or Natalee's Friends.
It also is not an ongoing discussion thread for any other cases.

TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: allnatalieallthetime; arrestedpaulvds; aruba; compulsive; corruption; croes; daterapedrug; deepak; dutch; fubaruba; ghb; holloway; joran; kalpooiesgohome; kidnapped; mafia; missing; natalee; nataleeholloway; obsessive; ocd; roofies; satish; sloot; tourism; travel; vandersloot

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To: varina davis

He's not leaving; he was let go. Incompetent is what I heard.

501 posted on 06/30/2005 9:03:42 PM PDT by Howlin

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To: truthluva

I definitely remember that story of Amy Bradley.

502 posted on 06/30/2005 9:03:45 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks should separate from central Canada and join together with Alberta !)

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To: af_vet_1981

AMEN!! Napolitano was nothing but excrutiating all during the Peterson trial. He was COMPLETELY WRONG tho. He's a very negative man toward ANY Prosecution.

503 posted on 06/30/2005 9:06:19 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks should separate from central Canada and join together with Alberta !)

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To: cajungirl

gorgeous girl on Greta.

Arlene Ellis-Schipper the attorney?

Very beautiful...... she was on Scarborough too.

504 posted on 06/30/2005 9:09:36 PM PDT by beyond the sea (No more legitimate hearing room ever again, Conyers......... to the broom closet ! ;-))

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To: Canadian Outrage

He's a putz!

Is there a list anywhere of Natalees family members? Is her aunt a PR person? And what does Jug do for a living?

505 posted on 06/30/2005 9:13:18 PM PDT by Jrabbit

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To: Howlin

I think that makes the whole thing even more suspicious.

506 posted on 06/30/2005 9:15:11 PM PDT by varina davis

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To: Jrabbit

JR I don't know the answers to those questions. I wish I did.

507 posted on 06/30/2005 9:21:48 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks should separate from central Canada and join together with Alberta !)

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To: spectre

"So they were all three involved and Natalee died at Joran's house. Either drug overdose or struggle."

Personally, I don't buy the accidental OD (whether she was drugged or took them freely) bcse the logical thing for them to do then would be to either report it or toss her in the surf and drop her flip-flops on the beach with a towel, some drugs, and an empty bottle of booze. Then they could make up a story about consensual debauchery before leaving her on the beach, etc.

Assuming she's dead, they got rid of the body bcse they did something to it (bruised inner thighs, strangle marks, black eyes) that would've made an accidental death story impossible. I think she was killed during a struggle.

And I'm not convinced they were the only ones who harmed her.

508 posted on 06/30/2005 9:23:39 PM PDT by MonaMars

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To: Jrabbit

Incidentally I don't put much stock in occult things. I know that God is much more powerful. I do believe that a battle is raging however and in my humble opinion, the one with the REAL Dirty hands is the cherry picked Curacao Judge. Notice how the case appears to have taken a nose dive since this guy was brought in?

509 posted on 06/30/2005 9:24:31 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks should separate from central Canada and join together with Alberta !)

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To: Canadian Outrage

Think I'll go check and see what's coming on now. Good night for now freepers. CO

510 posted on 06/30/2005 9:33:04 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks should separate from central Canada and join together with Alberta !)

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To: Canadian Outrage

Was it ever determined why he was brought in?

I can't get into the occult stuff at all. Total alien stuff to me.

I just got back from a trip to Canada. Quebec City, Montreal and Calgary. With a side trip down to Glacier.

511 posted on 06/30/2005 9:36:44 PM PDT by Jrabbit

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To: beyond the sea; All

Yet another Croes:

Betico Croes Of very high value and importance in the Aruban History are the persons and events that created the Aruba we experience today. Therefore we want you to get to know an important part of the recent history of Aruba

The History of a determined fighter! In Aruba’s political history we have a handful of personalities who left their signature in our history book. However, the fight, perseverance, courage, and determination of a “Son of the Land” , Betico Croes, excelled since he committed himself in 1971 with the people of Aruba to take leadership in Aruba’s longtime desire to be an autonomous state in the Dutch Kingdom.

Gilberto Francois Betico Croes. (01/25/1938 - 11/26/1986)

Betico Croes was the greatest statesman Aruba has ever known. He was born on January 25th 1938 in Santa Cruz, Aruba, from Parents Francisco and Maria Louisa Croes. It was a fatal car accident in his hometown on new years eve December 31st 1985, that resulted in him slipping into a coma from which he never returned. On that date, he was just minutes from celebrating the realization of his dream Aruba’s Apart Status ”Status Aparte" in the Dutch Kingdom. Aruba’s Liberator “Libertador” passed away on November the 26th 1986 after an eleven (11) months fight for his life.

Betico Croes was a very social person who was very much loved by the Aruban community. He was a school teacher who entered the political arena at a relatively young age. A politician, a great statesman with an unmatchable charisma.

The vision of our “Libertador G.F. Betico Croes” was clear and precise, and he knew the importance of emphasizing on the strong foundation of a sovereign country, its National Anthem, Flag and Armor. Betico Croes imprinted “Love to the country” in the hearts of his people and united the whole Aruban community in one common interest: “Aruba First”. He made every Aruban proud of family values, our Papiamento language, our culture, Flag and National Anthem.

His words still live in the Aruban’s memory: "If I fall along the way, grab a hold of the flag and continue the fight".

Aruba’s political history is still in development as Betico Croes’ vision is still in the process of becoming a reality.

512 posted on 06/30/2005 9:38:43 PM PDT by varina davis

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To: demkicker

and what's more, I think that they said they went to the lighthouse just in case anybody reported seeing their car going that direction (toward lighthouse and joran's house) instead of the direction of the HI

By saying the lighthouse it keeps everybody away from the crime scene, VDS house.

513 posted on 06/30/2005 9:40:32 PM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)

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To: GarySpFc

The blog shown below was posted last night over on riehlworldview.com by someone named "Toronto":

Quote:
Posted by: Toronto | June 29, 2005 08:47 PM

I have been reading this blog for several days now, and I finally have felt I have to comment. I am a blonde female that has travelled alone many times to the Carribean over the last few decades (althogh never to Aruba). I identify with Natalee, because that could easily have been me (I did not even travel with friends). Things on the islands were much safer then. I would be very careful to do those things now.

I have always befriended the locals, both upper and lower class on the islands. On some occassions, I have come across the expats and the local wealthy, which hang around/are one and the same as the "civil servants". They have their own clubs and casinos that the tourists never hear about. They will ofen go to places like the HI casino early in the evening, but eventually end up at these other clubs, only when they open later at night (the odds at gambling are also considerably better).

The "dicemen", or croupiers at places like the HI, will end up working as croupiers at places like these clubs after they finish their shift at the "tourista" hotels. The croupiers would also have thier own clubs to go to after a shift. The high-fliers would sometimes also be there for some home-town local flavour.

Shango (Chango) and Babalu (Babaloo- think of Ricky Ricardo) are two Santeria G(g)ods obseerved by local black decendents with strong Spanish ties. Chango is one of the major dieties. Babaloo is the spirit of health, and is represented by a wood carving of an old man with a cane/crutches, and was often sold at tourist shops (it took me years to find out why they sold those things). These after hours bars will usually have some wild ceremonies/parties in rooms or areas that are usually round, and the room will almost always have a pole in the centre of what looks like a dance floor. Sometimes, there will be writing/figures on the floor. These places are sometimes used as normal clubs during the early evening hours, but change later into the early morning hours, hours after the official closing time.

C&C is strictly for the tourists. The locals would never make a habit of hanging out at a place like that, unless they wanted to hit on some of the tourista girls. I was always careful to cancel all of my plans on the night before I left an island, and go to a place that no one I met would ever think to look for me.

I think Shango is pointing a finger at such a place. His riddle is worded for his friends who would know exactly what he is saying.

Like it or not, the cops are not going to bust all of the high-flying civil servants, and shut these places down!!! I'm sure the cops also know where these places are. As long as Equussearch hangs around with the local police, they will never ever find out that these places even exist. They will be too careful about that.

It seems obvious from the riddle that Natalee went to some sort of after hours club, like one of those noted above. Only some young attractive blonds are allowed into places like that. Someone as beautiful as Natalee (and surely as sophisticated and composed as her mother) would surely be a welcome guest.

The media should go to the bars where the locals hang out. Hopefully,in time, they will end up where Natalee went. Maybe PVDS was there when his son showed up? Kids were often inaugerated and allowed these habits at an early age, and JVDS might have been used as a lure (and therefore popular) at these clubs(why was he never picked up for gambling and drinking long before Ntalee ever went missing?) I strongly doubt that she would have gone there with someone like PVDS, the like of which would probably enjoy her company. The Dutch have always been very liberal with respect to drugs and sex. Perhaps PVDS wanted some entertainment before his wife arrived? I could speculate on this endlessly. The boys will never talk. They would be in too much trouble for revealing the place. I never saw anyone who looked like AVDS at one of these clubs. The wives, if they even knew about them, were never invited.

If you mention any of these types of things to any of the locals, it will be vehimently denied. You will only find out by someone who will trust that you wont tell.

I have also seen luxery cruisers parked offshore. I have never been on one, but the money needed to own one of those things would put you in that small super-financial elite category the likes of which very few would ever see or know about. So I think that the kidnapping theory could also fly.

514 posted on 06/30/2005 9:42:35 PM PDT by toldyou

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To: brigette

Besides I have a hottie older husband already - 13 years older than I - married for 11+ years now!

Besides I am a dirty old man with a gorgous Russian wife 13 years younger than I - married 4+ years now!

515 posted on 06/30/2005 9:46:45 PM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)

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To: cajungirl; Andy'smom; sarasota; cyborg; kcvl; brigette; maggiefluffs; No Surrender No Retreat; ...

From SM:

Mr. Mansur has been a frequent guest on Fox News coverage of the case. I believe he is the editor of the newspaper that published the "Kalpoes won't let Equusearch on their property" story that appeared today.

Greta interviewed the Kalpoes, who said they had no problem with Equusearch coming there, but they had not been asked about a search by Equusearch, rather someone wanting an interview, which they declined.

516 posted on 06/30/2005 9:58:20 PM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)

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To: TexKat

Can you give me an idea of where all this action is taking place at SM? I can't seem to find where everyone is.

517 posted on 06/30/2005 10:01:26 PM PDT by Nita Nupress

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To: TexKat; cajungirl; Howlin; brigette

Here we go again with Mansur trying to make sure the 3 boys are found guilty.

518 posted on 06/30/2005 10:05:52 PM PDT by Nita Nupress

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To: Nita Nupress

is this what your looking for

519 posted on 06/30/2005 10:18:21 PM PDT by vigilante2 (the truth is often stranger than fiction)

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To: Li-Li

"I do have a thought about Dirty Hand. What do you think about Lorenzo?"

That's who I think it is. Guy's involved with porn and rumored to be involved with drugs, is supposed to be a total psycho and friends with JVDS. It sounds like they drugged her, took her to one of Lorenzo's raves where the 3 boys raped her and left her behind for others (the lions) to attack, possibly in payment for drugs or gambling debts. Lorenzo supposedly has a speed boat, too.

Since the rumor is that JVDS passed the lie detector test on questions about killing her, but not about where and when he left her, the above theory fits with that. As to why he's not talking, he might fear the police less than he fears the ones he left her with.

520 posted on 06/30/2005 10:21:20 PM PDT by MonaMars

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