Vanity- Immigration Amnesty is right for the country especially now

3/15/02 | my fertile mind

[Pharmer]

My fellow freepers, I must disagree with the knee-jerk responses to the immigration amnesty issue. Many think that Bush is betraying his political base, squandering political capital and endangering the sovereignty of the US by his support of this bill. Most people see this as a move to attract Latino voters in areas like California, Florida and New Mexico (He already has them in Texas). This seems to be such a risky move with possibly no real pay-off. And to do it at a time of war when we were attacked by terrorists in this country illegally truly boggles the mind. Pardon me for my lack of cynicism but I think there is more to this approach that meets the eye.

All day yesterday and last light after listening to Rush Limbaugh and browsing FR, I had my initial views validated on this issue. How could our “conservative” president betray us on a principle we hold dear? A tough stance on the issue of illegal immigration is a bulwark of the conservative movement. Had Slick Willy done this, I would be on him like white on rice for the same reasons. So why do I feel differently about GW doing it? Something in my gut told me that there was a practical reason for this policy above and beyond the normal leftist lunacy that the Dems use to embrace this issue. I cannot believe that Bush is repeating the same mistakes as his father and breaking his campaign promises.

What’s changed? Well, its quite simple… we are at WAR. A shooting one. Not some police action on a piss ant dictator with a third rate army invading his neighbor in which a victory can be assured. And after its over in 3 months we can go back to worrying about why Brittany Spears and Justin Timberlake can’t get it together. The fact is that an enigmatic enemy attacked us from within. This is an enemy that posses a grave threat to our nation and civilization. And yet a lot of people seem to think that because we haven’t had a significant number of casualties in the field that the overall threat is not as grave. But it is. Not since WWII has our nation been in such peril. But do we REALY understand that? I think Mr. Bush does. And he’s trying to make us see it. We are in real danger and the future is not certain. This ain’t no Vietnam were we are fighting and dying over there.. This is here, at home.

During WWI and II Americans faced the immigrant issue in some form. Because we are a nation of immigrants, if we are attacked here at home by a foreign nation, it has been our tradition to persecute the American population that immigrated from that nation. During WWI, German immigrants were beaten in the streets and the frankfurter was renamed the “hot dog”. During WWII Japanese-Americans were rounded up and interned in camps “for their own safety”. Now we are at war again and the same issues of immigration and loyalty are foursquare in front of us.

How do we get a handle on the illegal immigration issue which is a serious matter of national security, quickly, without rounding up illegals and pitching them out. It would be cool to watch but I wouldn’t want to be in East LA, San Diego, San Antonio or Miami when they do it. The latinos would burn those cities to the ground and leftists would be there cheering them on. Then we wouldn’t just have to worry about just Al Qiada, look out for the FALN (they are latino, aren’t they?) and the Black Panthers!

So how do we find out and identify illegals in a quick way? How do we separate to good ones (one who are here for the right reasons) from the bad? Well seeing as how incompetent the INS is and how liberal judges look at illegals, an amnesty period is exactly not a bad idea. After all amnesty is a 2 way street. You have to ask for it to get it. In doing so you will avoid prosecution and, in the end, you will be documented. It would seem to me that undocumented visitors could be deported could be shown the door quicker in light of this act. And at the end of the day you don’t look like a xenophobic fool in the history books. Municipalities regularly run tax amnesties in order to collect back taxes from well-intentioned people how owe them. It also helps single out the scofflaws.

So Freeper, you have to ask yourself, what do you want? Do you want legal immigration? Do you want people to be able to come to this country for a better life as your forefathers did and do it in a legal manner? If so seeing as how incompetent the INS is that may be difficult. Or do you simply want to stop immigration because of the ever-increasing multicultural BS that we have to endure because of it? Well the solution to that is not stopping immigrattion but in defeating liberalism! Its home grown liberals who came up with this crap in the first place!

I know that this is a tough one to swallow. It is a slap in the face to law abiding immigrant awaiting green cards, etc. It is a slap in the face to all law-abiding citizens. But we are at war…and during wartime the rules change. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War. During WWII we had rationing and censorship. At the time these policies were abhorrent but practical. I guess this will be one of many things the right will be squawking about as a result. But I dare see we will be more compliant than those on the left!!!!

[Dick Bachert]

At the time of his approach to Red China, Richard Nixon (a REPUBLICAN for those of you from Rio Linda) was approached by an internationalist businessman who was literally salivating over the prospect of access to the BILLIONS of potential Chinese slave laborers and “customers” (although this rocket scientist had apparently not yet concluded that the Chinese people would be hard pressed to buy his stuff without MONEY!!!!).

This businessman was concerned that Nixon had been SAYING that he was cooling to the idea of an opening to Red China to quell the uprising within the then very much more America-First rank and file Republican Party.

As reported years later, Nixon told the businessman
“DON’T LISTEN TO WHAT WE SAY: WATCH WHAT WE DO!"

It is my strong memory of THAT event which prompts me to post this graphic!

AS YOU READ THIS, IT APPEARS THAT BUSH, DASCHLE AND OTHERS ARE WELL DOWN THE ROAD TO USING THIS PAGE FROM THE NIXON PLAYBOOK!

Look, America – the IDEA not the PLACE – can only continue to exist if we heed the advice of the founding fathers (paraphrased here in the current vernacular for residents of Rio Linda), to wit:
“The Founding Fathers have determined that failure to WATCH politicians – ALL POLITICIANS (even those you may worship!) – is dangerous to the security of this nation and to the freedoms we paid such a heavy price to TRY to leave you and your children.”

“Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is FORCE. And, like fire, it is a DANGEROUS SERVANT AND A FEARSOME MASTER.”
That from that notorious tinfoil hat wearing, radical wing-nut, George Washington.

[Texasforever]

Well, as I said before, this immigration bill is not nearly anything that warrants the hysteria I am seeing here. I believe we are witnessing a manufactured outrage to stir up anti-Bush sentiments.

BINGO!. It is the time for the 1% parties to start fleecing the weak minded and every one of their pet "issues" are now going to milked until the coffers are full.

[Tancredo Fan]

Americans don't want illegals here, and don't approve of them being rewarded. Prove me wrong if you can.

[Pharmer]

ke to think I am a reasonable person and am happy to listen to one intelligent reason to continue to support the insupportable.

Do you support the suspension of habeas corpus? Do you support rationing or censorship? They happened while during wartime.

Look, I don't support this any more than you do but I am putting forth the practicallity for why it may be necessary. Euthanasia of my cat may be practical, that doesn't mean I like it. My point is, and allways has been, that these are times when men are asked to sacrifice their lives for us to continue argue like this. This in principle stinks like a dead skunk in the middle of the road. I just think that there must be a real overwhelming need for this policy for the president to take such a political risk. I would think that before he signs this bill that he explains himself. I think there has to be a real need for this for him to take such a risk.

[PatrioticAmerican]

I'll agree with you when you give up your job to an illegal. Immigration control is also for financial reasons. If there are 1 million Americans out of work, you do not let in 5 million illegals.

[FITZ]

What’s changed? Well, its quite simple… we are at WAR. A shooting one.

Exactly ---we are at WAR. In fact it was a Mexican who pointed this out to me ---(I previously felt it was safe enough having Mexico nearby because at least they weren't terrorists) ---the drug cartel has an extremely vast network of illegals and legals from Mexico, they are able to transport and distribute tons of drugs over the border and throughout the US. These guys don't care one iota about US lives, their only motivation is money ---they could very easily be bribed into transporting into the US (using illegals of course) anything at all that someone bribed them to do. It's not a good time for us to keep these borders so wide open and it's not a good time to tolerate just anyone coming into this country.

[NMC EXP]

The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State. – Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels

From the master of PR.

Regards

J.R.

[NMC EXP]

Forgot to mention -- Outstanding work, thanks. -- J.R.

[Howlin]

I'm not the one who made the misstatement. I don't have to prove anything.

You need to show me a poll that says Americans want illegal aliens DRUG back over the border.

[Torie]

Per Michael Barone, the Chinese tend to vote GOP. Cheer up.

[Bobsat]

You're onto something, but I don't think you have it quite right yet. There's a pony in the box, but it's still covered with manure. We have:

1. Innumerable illegals who have set up housekeeping, married (citizens or other illegals), spawned offspring who are citizens, work in all strata of the job market, and otherwise participate in society.
2. Some non-pernicious illegals who are undesirable because they can't or don't contribute to society.
3. An inept INS that's in need of a complete overhaul.
4. A subculture of pernicious, undesirable illegals who are bent on infiltrating and ultimately destroying our country through selfish criminal acts or as members of insurrectionist groups.

For the sake of argument, let's classify illegals as "desirable" and "undesirable". (It's beside the point, but I classify citizens the same way....) The adage "it takes one to know one" comes into play. Right now, desirables have no incentive to rat out undesirables because they risk getting exposed in the process.

So maybe the plan is to let the desirables buy (literally) some time and remove the risk of identifying other illegals to a reformed INS.

I don't know -- it's just something to think about....

[healey22]

Illegal Immigration is never right and Amnesty is a reward to lawbreakers and a total insult to people who abide by the rules and a slap in the face. Why should I abide by the laws when a certain group of people get special treatment from the President of the United States and receive Amnesty for breaking the laws of this country? This is not what I teach my children and I expect the President to be a role model and not excuse lawbreakers.

[Miss Marple]

LOL! That's it! It's a conspiracy by Bush and the RNC to balance those democrat Hispanic votes!

Seriously, these folks don;t cause any problems and seem to be hard workers, but I was wondering why two professionals would be allowed to leave China and come here, and why instead of doing translation or medicine they are running a restaurant?

Sometimes I think I read too much Tom Clancy. Ha!

[Pharmer]

where was the hue and cry in this forum to send this "illegal alien" back to Cuba"

Under US law, he wasn't an illegal, as long as he reached shore before the Coast Guard or INS got him he became a legal resident. He did that.

Then why did the US cuircuit court rule against him? Under what authority did Janet el Rino storm his house if you are right? If memory serves me correct the hue and cry was over the lack of the Clinton admin to grant him assylum!! He was a minor rescued at sea and placed in the care of his relatives in Miami and yet was ruled as here illegally.

[Miss Marple]

When the library gives an amnesty on book fines do you immediately take out more books and keep them until they are way overdue? When the draft-dodger amnsty was announced did people suddenly quit registering for the draft? When a government grants a tax amnesty, do the rest of the citizens quit paying taxes?

[Nea Wood]

I just think that there must be a real overwhelming need for this policy for the president to take such a political risk. I would think that before he signs this bill that he explains himself.

I sure wish he would explain himself, and soon. People are beyond furious, and he is losing supporters right and left. If he's got a good reason for doing this, I wish to heaven he'd tell us what it is.

[FITZ]

Here's another reason ---very high unemployment in areas where illegals concentrate ---high unemployment of Hispanic citizens too BTW:

Pew, after polling 50 economic forecasters, estimated that Latino unemployment will be about 8.5 percent by the second quarter of this year.

The study, which was released Thursday, forecasts Hispanic unemployment this year as high as 13.2 percent in New York, 10.8 percent in Ohio, 10.4 percent in California, 10.3 percent in Michigan, 9 percent in Pennsylvania, 8 percent in Texas, 7.1 percent in Illinois and 6.8 percent in Florida.

Unemployment funds in several of those states, including California and Texas, are close to insolvent, said Alan Krueger, an economics professor at Princeton University.

Even when employed, two out of five Hispanics lack health insurance

[Tancredo Fan]

Would a survey indicating that the majority of the participants are in favor of having illegals caught and deported suffice?

[Howlin]

Yep.

[Texasforever]

I will never vote for another BUSH he makes me SO angry