Revealing the Genetic Impact of the Ottoman Occupation on Ethnic Groups of East-Central Europe and on the Roma Population of the Area [Gypsies, let's all try to distinguish ourselves]

PMC ^ | June 13, 2019 | Zsolt Banfai et all (see below)

[SunkenCiv]

According to genome-wide studies based on sex chromosomes, Europeans have two main features in their genetic makeup regarding the paternal and maternal lineages. Investigations of Y haplogroups show that there is geographical pattern in the Y haplogroup characteristics of distinct European regional populations. East-Central Europe and the rest of East Europe separate clearly from the Northern and Western parts of Europe regarding some major haplogroups. The R1b haplogroup is primarily a characteristic of West Europeans and its significance strongly decreases toward East Europe, where R1a is the predominant R haplogroup. R1b is Celtic, Saxon, Basque and Frisian related, originating from the Neolithic. R1a is mainly a Slavic derived haplogroup (Balaresque et al., 2010; Cruciani et al., 2011; Myres et al., 2011; Rocca et al., 2012; Underhill et al., 2015). Most of the East-Central European ethnic groups share R1a and R1b to a similar extent (Kayser et al., 2005). Western and mainly Northern groups show high extent of the I1 haplogroup, which is Germanic derived, Eastern and East-Central European populations possess mainly the I2, a Slavic derived haplogroup (Rootsi et al., 2004). E3b and J haplogroups are represented with a significant proportion in the genetic makeup of East-Central Europeans, distinguishing them from other European populations (Semino et al., 2004). Both haplogroups are connected predominantly to the Middle Eastern region. E3b is connected mainly to Middle Eastern and North African ancestries, haplogroup J indicates Arab, Greco-Roman, Anatolian and Mesopotamian ancestries (Cruciani et al., 2004; Semino et al., 2004; Battaglia et al., 2009). Studies based on mitochondrial DNA showed us that the maternal lineage does not reflect any patterns in connection with the geographical location of populations...

[SunkenCiv]

full author list: Zsolt Bánfai,1,2,* Béla I. Melegh,1,2 Katalin Sümegi,1,2 Kinga Hadzsiev,1,2 Attila Miseta,3 Miklós Kásler,4 and Béla Melegh1,2,*

[SunkenCiv]

[snip] Turks stayed in East-Central Europe at least for 5 generations, and approximately 80,000 Muslims settled in the Ottoman controlled region of the Kingdom of Hungary (Sugar, 1977)... Romani people share a common history with Turks not only because they lived in East-Central European countries under Ottoman occupation, but because their migration route included also Oghuz Turk occupying area. After their exodus from Northwest India, Roma reached the Caucasus region, the Middle East, including the Anatolian peninsula, in the 12th and the Balkans in the 13th centuries (Mendizabal et al., 2012). They arrived in the central region of Europe only in the 14th century, fleeing from the Ottoman conquering campaigns. In the 16th century, when a significant part of East-Central Europe was claimed by the Ottoman Empire, the Roma people were a significant ethnic minority of the area already (Crowe, 2007). [/snip]

[Jim Noble]

It’s interesting that articles directed to the lay public often comment on the stability of mt-DNA within populations that undergo not uncommon and rapid changes in Y-DNA without pointing out the obvious.

The invaders always kill the men and take the women. Over and over and over.

[SunkenCiv]

...the so-called ‘Gypsies’, whose official name in Ottoman-Turkish was Kıptı (i.e. Copts – the native Egyptians) or Çingene, were full-fledged subjects of the Sultan (i.e. citizens of the Empire) and, unlike the Gypsies in Central and Western Europe who achieved this social status much later, had had civil rights since the fifteenth century (Marushiakova and Popov 2001). However, the population in the Ottoman Empire was not in an equal social position, as the main division was into two basic categories, distinguished according to their religion – orthodox (Muslim) and infidels (non-Muslims)...

In 1867, the Bulgarian newspaper Macedonia, printed in Istanbul, published a reader’s “Letter to the Еditor” (the chief editor was Petko Rachov Slaveykov, a renowned Bulgarian enlightener, fighter for civic and national revival of Bulgarians and for the independent Bulgarian church); the letter was signed with the pseudonym “One Egyptian” (Един Егюптиянин 1867:3; for full text of the letter see Marushiakova and Popov 1995:39–42; 2021:9–17). At that time in the Balkans the name Egyptians (Γυφτοι, Егюпци, Гюпти, etc. in the various languages) designated Gypsies, which, in the Ottoman Empire, referred to their official name Kıptı (meaning Egyptians), and which in turn originated from Αιγύπτιος (Egyptians), a term used since Byzantine times (Soulis 1961).

This “Letter to the Editor” in the newspaper Macedonia represented a direct response to the editor of the newspaper – Petko R. Slaveykov and his article entitled “The Gypsies,” published in Gayda newspaper in 1866 (Славейков 1866:256–258) and which actually inspired the author of the letter to write it. In this article, the leading discourse was the origin and history of the Gypsies in the Balkans, to where, according to its author, they migrated from Egypt; moreover, the Gypsies were said to be those who brough to the “wild” Greeks the benefits of civilisation, as evidenced by the borrowings from their language in Greek (Един Егюптиянин 1867:3). The ‘evidence’ of the origin and history of the Gypsies presented in this article is undoubtedly original (or, rather, even extravagant), although far from the achievements of European science at the time. The ‘Egyptian’ hypothesis about the origin of the Gypsies, especially popular in the Middle Ages, was, at the time, long overdue in the history of science; however, in the Balkans, it unexpectedly found its new life. The reasons for this are rather socio-political – this was the height of the struggle for independence of the Bulgarian church against the Greeks, and the humiliation of Greek’s ancient history was part of the arguments in this struggle, of which Petko R. Slaveykov himself was one of the leading figures.

Roma Writings, Chapter One, 'Ottoman Empire' | Elena Marushiakova and Vesselin Popov

[SunkenCiv]

Ottoman Empire
Elena Marushiakova / Veselin Popov
https://rm.coe.int/ottoman-empire-factsheets-on-romani-history/16808b193d

‘Giving the Turks a drubbing’: The Battle of Romani
Friday 5 August 2016 | Dr Juliette Desplat and Dr George Hay
https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/giving-turks-drubbing-battle-romani-3-5-august-1916/

Sinai campaign map
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/interactive/sinai-campaign-map

[SunkenCiv]

Well, maybe not the uggos.

[blueunicorn6]

I am fairly dark.

We would have a family reunion, and all my cousins were blonde with blue eyes.

I asked my Grandmother how I could be dark and my cousins were all so fair.

She told me that the Vikings would kidnap the Gypsy princesses and bring them home and marry them.

She told me that I was royalty.

I was descended from a Viking Prince and a Gypsy Princess.

I guess this explains why I like sailing and stealing silver candle holders.

[SunkenCiv]

;^)

[Cloverfarm]

I like how your grandmother handled the question.

Hubs is so dark that when he is suited up for work (hair net, jacket, face shield, face mask) and all you can see brown eyes and a little bit of tanned face, he’s had visitors to the plant ask if he can speak English.

Most of his background is Swiss and Austrian, so maybe he’s kinda Turk/Gypsy-ish too.

[Grampa Dave]

The invaders always kill the men and take the women. Over and over and over.

The smart women, quickly sized up the invaders with the Best DNA and allowed themselves to be the top selections by the Best invaders’ DNA!.

[Salamander]

My immediate family are all tall, blonde and blue eyed and fair.

I’m small, tawny, green-eyed and auburn.

My mother swears that Gypsies took her real baby and left me in her stead.

[in reality, I look like the Welsh part of the family but that’s some kinda crazy throwback, right there]

/Changeling