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Flying Dino Too Weak to Lift Off?
Discovery News ^ | Thursday, November 8, 2012 | Larry O'Hanlon

Posted on 11/10/2012 11:58:31 AM PST by SunkenCiv

A new analysis of the largest of pterodactyls suggests they were too big and their muscles too weak to vault into the air and fly. Instead, they were right at the upper limit of animal flight and needed a hill or stiff breeze so they could soar like hang gliders.

The new analysis was done on the enormous pterosaur Quetzalcoatlus from Late Cretaceous rocks of Big Bend, Texas. Quetzalcoatlus had a wingspan of about 35 feet (10.6 meters), or about the wingspan of a F-16 fighter. It was among the last pterodactyls to look down on dinosaurs 65 million years ago.

The new study, presented on Nov. 7 at the meeting of the Geological Society of America in Charlotte, N.C., puts the mass of the flying reptile at around 155 pounds (70 kilograms). That's near the upper limit of what flesh and bone can support in flight, according to paleontologist Sankar Chatterjee of Texas Tech University in Lubbock...

"There's no way this animal could take off from the ground," said Chatterjee of the quad launch, especially of a more massive animal. "There is no way it could fly."

At least not by jumping directly into the air and taking flight, he said. As for the greater weight suggested by others, that doesn't work in his model either. Despite the fact that Quetzalcoatlus was as large as a giraffe, it could not have weighed more than a medium-sized adult human, he said...

Other researchers, however, are sticking to their quad launch hypothesis, partly because they can't see how Quetzalcoatlus could weigh as little as 70 kilograms.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.discovery.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: dinosaur; dinosaurs; godsgravesglyphs; paleontology; pterodactyl
Quetzalcoatlus demonstrates the so-called "quad launch" in this illustration. [Mark Witton]

Quetzalcoatlus demonstrates the so-called quad launch in this illustration. [Mark Witton]

1 posted on 11/10/2012 11:58:36 AM PST by SunkenCiv
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Dragon-Like, Feathered Dinosaur Was Ace Flyer -- Amanda Fiegl -- National Geographic News -- November 5, 2012 -- Why would a dinosaur with a body built for running have four wings and a long, feathered tail -- and how did it use them? Paleontologists have long puzzled over the dragon-like anatomy of the tiny, carnivorous dinosaur called Microraptor that hunted in the forests of China 130 million years ago. Finally, anatomists think they've found an answer: This crow-size dromaeosaur was a master of control. Whether it was gliding or flapping through the air, its hind wings would have let it turn on a dime. "In terms of aerodynamics, the hind wings would have increased its rate of turn by 33 to 50 percent, compared to using only the front wings," said Michael Habib of the University of Southern California, Los Angeles, who co-presented the research at an annual meeting of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology in Raleigh, North Carolina, last month.
Microraptor's aerodynamic wings are seen in an artist's reconstruction. [Illustration courtesy David Krentz]

Dragon-Like, Feathered Dinosaur Was Ace Flyer

2 posted on 11/10/2012 12:00:47 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

bump

my nephew just brought home a really big book of dee-nosaurs, I’m going to take a peek for the Quezo-chezy coated one


3 posted on 11/10/2012 12:01:06 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Renfield; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Renfield, for both stories.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


4 posted on 11/10/2012 12:01:40 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Renfield; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Renfield, for both stories.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


5 posted on 11/10/2012 12:02:43 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Bees can’t fly either.


6 posted on 11/10/2012 12:02:54 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Bumblebees can’t fly either.


7 posted on 11/10/2012 12:04:39 PM PST by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: SunkenCiv

I wonder if they are assuming 14.7 psi as one atmosphere?

I’m also wondering what percentage of the atmosphere and hydrosphere would be permanently blasted into space if you abruptly opened a 120 mile wide crater down to magma at a shallow ocean margin?

Seems to me that would create a superheated seawater steam jet that would rocket into space for days if not weeks.

The net pressure and available atmospheric oxygen before Chicxulub might well have been significantly higher.


8 posted on 11/10/2012 12:17:07 PM PST by null and void (The One can steal an election, but no one can steal our country.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ve heard that one reason dinosaurs could be of such a large size is that there used to be more oxygen in the atmosphere. I wonder if it is known whether there was also higher surface air pressure.


9 posted on 11/10/2012 12:18:41 PM PST by wideminded
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To: SunkenCiv

I fully understand. I have the same problem.


10 posted on 11/10/2012 12:24:02 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: wideminded

One of the aspects of climbing Mt.Everest is that it requires oxygen tanks. Then, once at the top, climbers look up and wonder how flocks of birds can fly past at that altitude.

How do birds do that, as flying requires so much energy and thus oxygen?

It is because they are descended from dinosaurs, an animal that evolved at the end of the Permian extinction when there had been an oxygen collapse.

Birds, and dinosaurs, have a physiology that traps air inside their bodies.


11 posted on 11/10/2012 12:28:38 PM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SunkenCiv; GeronL; null and void

"I don't unnerstand why this F***ing thing won't fly."

12 posted on 11/10/2012 12:29:59 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: SunkenCiv

Canadian geese are falling all over my front lawn.


13 posted on 11/10/2012 12:32:38 PM PST by bunkerhill7 (yup)
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To: bigheadfred

lol

RINO too weak to lift off


14 posted on 11/10/2012 12:37:00 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: SunkenCiv

And not a single word about the thicker, more dense air that existed during the epochs of the dinosaurs.

Denser air would displace more weight given the same area. It would apply more upward pressure for any wing area and velocity.

I see nothing mentioned that the air was much more dense in the hotter climates when these animals flew.

The analysis appears flawed.


15 posted on 11/10/2012 1:28:11 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Pray to God. Apologize to your children. America is doomed.)
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To: bigheadfred

LOL


16 posted on 11/10/2012 1:34:49 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

“And not a single word about the thicker, more dense air that existed during the epochs of the dinosaurs.”

Really? I never heard of this before. That’s pretty interesting.


17 posted on 11/10/2012 1:44:51 PM PST by Beowulf9
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To: SatinDoll
Birds, and dinosaurs, have a physiology that traps air inside their bodies.

Apparently peeple fall into that category. They have a physiology that traps air inside their heads.

18 posted on 11/10/2012 1:45:49 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: SunkenCiv

Maybe it was just windier at the time.


19 posted on 11/10/2012 1:53:13 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: SunkenCiv


20 posted on 11/10/2012 2:02:34 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: SunkenCiv

SunkenCiv, I’m getting your pings 2X on every subject.

Why are you sending to your ping list out twice on each thread? Here you’ve done it on post # 4 and 5.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want ot be off the ping list, but I only need them once!


21 posted on 11/10/2012 2:52:07 PM PST by Alas Babylon!
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To: Kirkwood
said, "Bumblebees can’t fly either."

that is what i was thinking. I doubt they took into account the denser atmosphere back then

22 posted on 11/10/2012 3:19:18 PM PST by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: JoeProBono

what is that?


23 posted on 11/10/2012 3:27:54 PM PST by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: bigheadfred

Only you, dear Fred, only you.


24 posted on 11/10/2012 3:40:26 PM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll; Just A Nobody

No. It isn’t “only” me. The strength of your virtue “only” adds to my “strength”.

CHRIST IS KING.


25 posted on 11/10/2012 4:05:51 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred

So? This universe is God’s Creation. And scientists every day are discovering the ways by which it operates. They are discovering the Lord’s physical laws, put in place by God, that you would prefer they not find.

Am I right?


26 posted on 11/10/2012 4:13:17 PM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll

So? You want to be a soul dead obamanation unworthy of any respect?

YOU. I have that respect FOR YOU. Instilled in me me by people who not “only” had that respect, but DESERVED that respect.

This universe IS Gods creation. Do not be misguided in your efforts or lack of understanding of INFINITY.


27 posted on 11/10/2012 4:32:16 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred

I am no dead soul or obamanation.

And I don’t give a damn about respect from you, or anyone else.

God created the Universe and all the physical laws within. What a wonderful and elegant creation it is, too!

Evolution and extinction are a part of God’s universe.


28 posted on 11/10/2012 4:39:10 PM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll

lol XOXO


29 posted on 11/10/2012 5:07:19 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Alas Babylon!; SunkenCiv
Civ,

SunkenCiv, I’m getting your pings 2X on every subject.

I'm not getting your pings anymore...

30 posted on 11/10/2012 5:13:46 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: SunkenCiv

And then there is this:

The Paradox of Large Dinosaurs
Applying Science to Understanding Large Dinosaurs

http://dinosaurtheory.com/big_dinosaur.html


31 posted on 11/10/2012 6:17:48 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: Alas Babylon!

I just sent a message about that. In fact, given how things are functioning around here, I probably sent it twice. ;’)


32 posted on 11/11/2012 5:21:14 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: JoeProBono

Nice! That must be from 1955, they were makin’ Thunderbirds.


33 posted on 11/11/2012 5:22:26 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; Kirkwood

That’s amusing, but it’s mythical. :’)


34 posted on 11/11/2012 5:32:11 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

They didn’t have Dinagra.


35 posted on 11/11/2012 5:32:55 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: BenLurkin; bigheadfred; GeronL; cripplecreek; SatinDoll
Maybe it was just windier at the time.
:') Not as windy as it is around here.


36 posted on 11/11/2012 5:37:31 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: null and void; wideminded; SatinDoll; bunkerhill7; Freedom_Is_Not_Free; Beowulf9; ...

Thanks for the great comments, all. Thanks PIF for that link. And I think Medved in absentia for all those old topics about how giant critters could function. :’)

There’s been some suggestion that there was a higher CO2 level in the atmosphere (and not just a little higher, orders of magnitude more) in order to A) get funding for research from the “global warming” agenda, and B) try to explain how dinos were found from pole to pole (drifting continents can’t account for it, the former dino ranges weren’t in the temperate or subtropical or tropical zones).


37 posted on 11/11/2012 6:03:59 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

38 posted on 11/11/2012 6:48:54 AM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: SunkenCiv

A thicker atmosphere transports heat from here to there more efficiently. The global temperature would be more uniform even in the absence of a greenhouse effect.

With the current atmospheric thickness, sea level temperatures range from ~-140°F to ~140°F, with a global average of about 60°.

Without actually running the numbers (mostly because I don’t have a clue how to do it) I would not be surprised if an atmosphere twice as thick were 20° warmer on the average, and had a range 3 times narrower, 30° to 115°. Very pole-to-pole survivable even for a reptile.

You, of course, can make up your own numbers...


39 posted on 11/11/2012 9:56:45 AM PST by null and void (The One can steal an election, but no one can steal our country.)
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To: PIF

Dinosaurs were too big for Earth’s present gravity. There had to be gravity attenuation of some sort. Ted Holden’s analysis of muscle strength and scaling for muscle mass based on international weight lifting standards establishes that an elephant is at the outer limits of size allowed by biological factors in muscle strength, tendon strength and the hydraulics of blood flow and capillary permeability under pressure. http://bearfabrique.org/History/sauropods/sauropods.html


40 posted on 11/12/2012 8:55:30 AM PST by Yollopoliuhqui
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To: null and void
I’m also wondering what percentage of the atmosphere and hydrosphere would be permanently blasted into space if you abruptly opened a 120 mile wide crater down to magma at a shallow ocean margin? Seems to me that would create a superheated seawater steam jet that would rocket into space for days if not weeks.

Walter Brown's Hydroplate model?

Hydroplate

41 posted on 11/14/2012 10:42:51 AM PST by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: El Cid

Almost, but not quite, totally unlike that.

This isn’t a vast amount of subterranean water created out of whole cloth to explain away a miraculous story. This is a planetary ocean clearly visible to the most casual and disinterested observer.

Imagine a 120 mile wide crater torn open in the bottom of a shallow SURFACE sea.

Where does the sea water go?

It tries to fill the hole.

The bottom of the hole is orange yellow to white hot.

What does the SURFACE sea water do when you pour it onto a 2000°F pool of molten rock?

(You get extra point if you say “BOIL” at this point).

Water expands 1740 times in volume when it boils.

Where does this extra suddenly created volume go? Hint 1: It’s on a rock floor. Hint 2: It is surrounded by a ring of crater wall and a high wall of in-pouring seawater.

The only path is up. Up into space. How much atmospheric air gets swept into it and how much of the air and superheated steam falls back to earth is an exercise left for the reader.

Extra bonus points if you point out that BEFORE a goodly fraction of the world spanning ocean was blasted into space, there just might have been enough water on earth to really create a global flood.

Extra extra points if you speculate that it took, say, forty days and forty nights for the crater to cool enough so that the fraction of the vast amount of water blasted into space that was going to make a return trip stopped settling back to earth.

Extra extra extra points if you imagine what an evening sky would look like with trillions of gallons of frozen droplets of ice in a orbital cloud with raw sunlight shining on it.

I’d say a vast horizon-to-horizon ground to zenith daylight bright rainbow...


42 posted on 11/14/2012 11:46:28 AM PST by null and void (America - Abducted by Aliens...)
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