New book says wrong clothing, not winter led to Hitler's 1941 defeat in Russia

ANI ^ | Jul 26, 2009 | Unknown

[decimon]

British historian Andrew Roberts has claimed in a new book -- The Storm of War -- that wrong clothing and not ghastly wintry conditions led to Germany's defeat in Russia in 1941.

In an extract from his new book, Roberts claims that Hitler's troops were fatally ill equipped for the 1941 invasion of Russia.

He also blames dictator Adolf Hitler for that defeat, saying the Nazi leader failed to take care of his troops' needs and was more proud of his hardiness in the cold, boasting how "having to change into long trousers was always a misery to me."

Prior to Operation Barbarossa, the Nazis were not so certain that their invasion of Russia, which began on June 22, 1941, would take place in a very cold winter.

The mistake that the German commissariat made was that they did not organize enough woollen hats, gloves, long johns and overcoats for use in Russia, reports The Telegraph.

[Tallguy]

I think that attacking Stalingrad was almost a military necessity. It would have been extremely dangerous to leave a military center to your rear as you advance deep into the Caucuses. OTOH, if you could take Stalingrad you could hold it with far fewer troops than it would take to cordon the area, like a seige.

[GeronL]

I think they could have put more resources into the mission after it changed to attacking Stalingrad. But they didn’t.

[lbryce]

I have never seen any authoritative, scholarly reference, validation for my very own personal deduction that it was Mussolini's ill-fated military campaign in the Balkans, forcing Hitler to postpone the Russian timetable from early April, 1941 to late June in order to secure the Balkans, in effectively having Germany lose the Soviet campaign and the war itself.

Had Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa n April, 1941 as initially planned, the crucial months of fighting would have taken place when the weather would not have been the disastrously mitigating factor in Germany's defeat. The Germans were forced to fight in the worst winter in a hundred years, the cold so fierce to have caused fatal rupture of the intestines when soldiers' relieving themselves.

http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/greece.htm
Italy was at once awed and jealous of the German successes in 1940, and Mussolini declared war on Britain and France on June 10. Stagnated in France until the German victory, the Italians looked to the Southeast for something they could claim as their own prize. 200,000 Italian soldiers attacked Greece from Italian Albania on October 28, 1940. The Greek Army proved much tougher than Mussolini or his generals expected. Not only was the Italian advance smashed, the Italians were expelled from Greece and driven back to Albania . Hitler was furious; Mussolini had not bothered to inform him of the invasion. As Hitler planned to attack the Soviet Union in the Spring of 1941, the Italian advance had left his southern flank critically exposed. Now he had to postpone the Russian timetable in order to secure the Balkans. Hitler’s forces attacked Greece and Yugoslavia on April 6, 1941. The Metaxas Line, fortresses on the Greek-Bulgarian border, stopped the Germans until Yugoslavia fell on April 17. Then the Germans could move into Greece from Yugoslavia and surrounded the Greek positions. Hitler still had to shift forces preparing for the invasion of Russia to collapse the Greek Resistance. The whole Peloponnesian peninsula was overrun and Athens fell on April 27.

[Tallguy]

The thing that greatly contributed Hitler’s defeat in the Soviet Union was the unplanned move into the Balkans. The operation started in the Spring of ‘41 with the invasion of Yugoslvia, Albania, Greece, and ended witht he airborne assault of Crete. This pushed back the timetable for the invasion of the Soviet Union.

Italy’s ill-considered move into Albania precipitated the Brits reinforcing Greece from Egypt. Hitler countered by sending his mobile forces into the Balkans. If the Germans had another several more weeks of good weather in 1941, they might have taken some of their strategic objectives before really bad weather set in. Maintenance of the Objective.

[himno hero]

Another huge problem was they left for a quick victory and the vehicles were ill prepared. They were supposed to be done before winter set in.

Also, as a result, a simple thing called anti-freeze was neglected. When fuel deliveries ran behind, a lot of vehicles were basically internally destroyed.

[Tallguy]

I think they could have put more resources into the mission after it changed to attacking Stalingrad. But they didn’t.

I would agree with that. The Germans were trying to meet 2 strategic objectives simultaneously -- seize the Caucuses region, and take Stalingrad. Clearly you couldn't do the former without the latter. Therefore, taking Stalingrad should have had the lion's share of military resources.

[stylin_geek]

The Russian “armies” tended to be underequipped for battle. They had the choice of advancing or being killed by the officers behind them. Typically, the soldiers in the forefront of the advance were armed, and, when they were killed, the following soldiers armed themselves by taking weapons from their fallen comrades.

[DesertRhino]

Cut off places with no logistical support can be bypassed and starved. Stalingrad was unnecessary militarily, at least the city fighting.

But thank goodness Hitler was drawn into it. All the Nazis killed there werent available to be turned against our boys later. For some real fun, look at a map of the USSR with hitlers high water mark on it. He barely made it into the county, didnt pass the Urals. It was hopeless.

I personally thing the Germans started believing their own BS and thought they simply were invincible.

[sinanju]

Author John Barron stated that Hitler’s Abwher diagnosed Stalin as a paranoid schizophrenic in the thirties and cooked up a false document concerning a military coup, naming all the top Soviet commanders and letting fall into Stalin’s hands.

According to him this is what kicked of Stalin’s devastating purge, decapitating the Red Army.

[sinanju]

I think I read that part.

Stalin knew that he and Hitler would have to go to war eventually, but he did not anticipate that Hitler would strike when he did.

[DesertRhino]

And the scope of the war in the east is almost beyond comprehension for Americans or other Allies. More died in Stalingrad than we lost in the entire war. And they had numerous battles nearly as bad.

[Cheburashka]

Actually I thought you were referring to his first book on the Outbreak of the Russo-German War, Icebreaker(in Russian Ledokol), which was published some nineteen years ago. I remember hearing that Naval Institute Press was planning on publishing a new book by him, but did not know it had come out.

Rezun(his real name)/Suvorov and his thesis, Stalin preparing to strike first but being beaten to the punch by Hitler, are very controversial in Russia and by no means accepted by everyone. He's a very engaging writer, but his books are like a prosecuting attorney's summation: every fact that can be brought forth to prove the defendant's guilt is used, even if it has to be pounded in, like a square peg into a round hole. Look elsewhere for any facts that don't support what he says. So be careful to take what he says with a grain of salt.

It should also be noted that four or five books written in Russian on World War II that have never been translated into English. Considering his writing style they would seem certain to do quite well. Why they haven't is a mystery.

[sinanju]

Suvorov made some other assertions in his books. He stated that the million or so Red Army prisoners the Nazis captured would have almost to a man, been happy to take up arms against Stalin if only Hitler had had the imagination to take them up on it. Rather than starving and working them to death.

Suvorov also referenced the “punishment battalions” that universally led most Soviet attacks. He baldly stated that when the Russians attacked the Germans should have always held their fire and rapidly retreated a good distance to give the punishment battalions space to find cover from the troops behind them so that they could turn around and fire on those to their rear.

I think the Military Channel, in its episode on the Shturmovik, references Suvorov’s assertion that the rear gunners on the Shturmovik were also punishment battalion inmates who, unlike the pilot, had no armor protection and whose guns were equipped with a spring-loaded device that held them level even when they had been killed.

The episode stated that they were unable to find corroborating evidence or testimony for this.

[RichInOC]

That strikes me as a distinction without a difference.

[bert]

They prevailed. They won.

[Tallguy]

Cut off places with no logistical support can be bypassed and starved. Stalingrad was unnecessary militarily, at least the city fighting.

That is undoubtedly true, but Stalingrad was not cut-off. The Soviets were ferrying troops across the Volga on a nightly basis.

The only option was to take the city. Failing to do so leaves the city as a forward base from which a Soviet army could slice into the German rear areas.

I don't think that cordoning off the city would have been possible. It would have taken troops that the German Army Group did not have. The terrain around the city would also have made it difficult -- not much to "tie into".

[Tallguy]

And the scope of the war in the east is almost beyond comprehension for Americans or other Allies. More died in Stalingrad than we lost in the entire war. And they had numerous battles nearly as bad.

No question. A lot of Americans seem to believe that America won the war almost single-handedly, or in concert with the British Imperial forces. In reality the bulk of the German Army was always nose-to-nose with the Russians from 1941 onward, and this gave Stalin a huge say at all of the strategy conferences. I would include myself in this until my interests in WW2 led me to investigate the Eastern Front. It was a titanic struggle.

That said discussions of the German 6th Army's capitulation at Stalingrad neglect to note that the German 5th Army & Dessert Afrika Corps also went into captivity at around the same time (Tunisia). That's a dual strategic defeat that I can only liken to Gettysburg/Vicksburg.

[Nuc1]

I often wonder what would have happened in Europe had Japan not attacked the US. Suppose Japan instead of attacking the US had gone to meet Hitlers Armies with their seapower and transported them across the Channel?

You are onto it. The Axis great strategic blunder was attacking Pearl Harbor. If the Germans had used the Japanese Imperial Fleet to support Operation Sea Lion, The British Navy (a battleship navy) would have been defeated in detail. The German Army would have been able to invade England and with all the British Army's equipment left at Dunkirk, there was no material to defend England with.

With England lost. No base of operation for the "Allies" in the Western European theater. And no Russian Army attacking Germany from the East. In short, I believe Germany would have wheeled and taken Russia. Taken the middle east. In conjunction with Japan taken the far east. Developed the Atomic Bomb. In short, won the war. A child could have seen this. Thank God their egos got in the way.

[stylin_geek]

I didn’t say the Russians didn’t win.

I’m saying the Russians, at least initially, weren’t prepared and sacrificed millions of soldiers, used them as shock troops, regarded them as expendable.

What you’re arguing, I’m not sure, because, all I’ve done is pointed out how the Russians won. For some reason, you seem to have a problem with my pointing out just how ruthless and brutal the Russians were toward their own soldiers.

[kabumpo]

My father, who served in WW II always theorized tht it would have all been so different if after the atttack on Pearl Harbor, Hitler had denounced Japan and turned on them.