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Protesters tear down Zhukov bust in Ukraine
AP by Fox ^ | June 3, 2019

Posted on 06/09/2019 3:44:01 AM PDT by NorseViking

MOSCOW – Protesters have torn down a towering bust of Soviet military hero Marshal Georgy Zhukov in Ukraine's second-largest city.

Destruction of the monument in Kharkiv on Sunday came amid protests by an array of far-right and nationalist groups against an organizing session for a new political party. The party is led by the mayors of Kharkiv and Odesa, both of whom were members of the party of Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russia president ousted amid bloody protests in 2014.

The protesters said the bust violated Ukraine's law banning Communist symbols. A crowd of hundreds cheered as protesters tugged on a cord around the bust and it toppled off a high plinth.

Zhukov commanded the Red Army forces in the final assault on Berlin in World War II.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Government; History; Military/Veterans; Society
KEYWORDS: communistsymbol; dictatorship; georgyzhukov; nazi; putinsbuttboys; russia; ukraine; ussr; vladtheimploder; wwii; zhukov
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To: mac_truck
What to believe about antisemitism in Ukraine..

How about believing peoples actual actions.

73% of Ukrainians who voted, voted for a Jewish Ukrainian President.

The fascist Svoboda candidate received 1.62% of the vote.

41 posted on 06/09/2019 10:26:11 AM PDT by tlozo
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To: mac_truck

Antisemitism in Ukraine is clouded by Russian disinformation campaign over Crimea. There probably aren’t more than 250k Jews in Russia and Ukraine combined, not even close to 1% of their populations.

42 posted on 06/09/2019 10:32:20 AM PDT by jjotto (Next week, BOOM!, for sure!)
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To: pierrem15

“” “” The Poles I know are bitter about German atrocities, but respect the Germans for their cultural, scientific and economic achievements. For the Russians they have nothing but unbridled contempt. “” “”

With all the respect to the Poles and their suffering it is in part a result of Nazi and their own ultra-Nationalist propaganda.

Poland was bigger than Russia in many senses until early 17th century in cultural, economical and many other senses.

It was probably an unofficial leader of the Slavic world and a sort of great power.

At the same time, just like Ukraine and Turkey now or Russia for centuries to come it was in confusion is it part of the West or East. They decided West and it didn’t work as expected. Combined with political corruption typical to that of modern Ukraine but adjusted to 17th and 18th centuries they downgraded themselves from a great power into a troublesome backward part of Europe. And they were in denial about it for centuries. ‘Backward’ Russia has developed on all fronts into a global superpower at the same time and swallowed them at one point.

The general belief to this day is that it was unfair and Poland deserved the Russian place in history. That is why many stereotypes on Russian backwardness dating back to middle age but barely actual for 300 years and counting.

The most extreme of their theories even denies that the Russians are Slavs but states they are a mix between Mongols and Finno-Vikings.

I am in no way support historical Russian approach toward Poland but the Polish did some very bad things in Russia before is became big to hit back. It would make sense to update their view of Russia too. More so to bury it and move on.

43 posted on 06/09/2019 10:35:35 AM PDT by NorseViking
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To: jjotto

NYC alone has more than 300000 first generation Jewish immigrants from Russia and Ukraine who has relatives back to home countries. There are might be few people identifying as Jewish due to a traditional securalism an left-lean of them in that part of the World but they are certainly in millions.

44 posted on 06/09/2019 10:56:07 AM PDT by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking


Perhaps millions who have a distant ancestor who was Jewish, but identifiably Jewish today? Not a chance!

No source finds as many as a million Jews (even by the broadest definitions) left in the countries of the former Soviet Union.

45 posted on 06/09/2019 11:05:57 AM PDT by jjotto (Next week, BOOM!, for sure!)
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To: jjotto

Two in three lawyers and half of all doctors you see in Russia are obviously Jewish. And they aren’t actually hiding it in business situations involving foreign Jewish people. Many have religious items at home.

46 posted on 06/09/2019 11:13:28 AM PDT by NorseViking
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To: tlozo
The vote in the Presidential elections is meaningless...religion doesn't play a prominent role in post-Soviet Ukrainian politics, Zelenski didn't highlight his Jewish background during the campaign and the election results have NOTHING to do with the documented rise of Nazism in the country.

This happened just a year ago, not that you gaf...

Foreign Ministry fires Ukrainian consul in Hamburg for his anti-Semitic views

47 posted on 06/09/2019 11:25:47 AM PDT by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
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To: All
The fascist Svoboda candidate received 1.62% of the vote.

This is exactly how the neocons roll... they cite some meaningless statistic while ignoring the fact that the second most powerful leader in Ukraine today, Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Andriy Parubiy, is a well documented neo-nazi extremist going back decades.


48 posted on 06/09/2019 12:03:38 PM PDT by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
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To: NorseViking
Well, the Poles made a couple of very bad mistakes in the 17th century as well as being the victim of other historical events.

First, they made the last Catholic king of Sweden king of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, who continued to meddle in Swedish politics, dragging Poland into a disastrous war with the Swedes, that ravaged Poland and allowed the Duchy of Prussia to become an independent kingdom.

Second, what started as a civil war between small Polish landowners like Chmielnicki (whose father was part of the Polish occupation of Moscow in 1618) and the big landowners like Wisniowiecki expanded to include the Cossacks and finally the Russians, who seized the eastern Ukraine including Kiev from Poland-Lithuania.

Third, a resurgent Turkish sultanate attacked Poland in Bessarabia, another brutal war.

These conflicts were in some respects the Polish equivalent of the Thirty Years War, leading to a reduction in population of between 15% and 25% in the area still under Polish-Lithuanian control.

Lastly, the Turkish occupation of Hungary had forced the Hungarian nobility to make a deal with the Hapsburg monarchy, transforming what had been an ally into another potential adversary.

After Sobiecki, Poland found itself surrounded by enemies on all sides.

As far as "disorder" goes this was in part a quite successful propaganda effort by both Prussia and Russia against Poland, and in many cases what "disorder" existed was instigated by those same powers, such as Frederick the Great's deliberate counterfeiting of Polish currency to debase it and the Tsars' bribes to Polish nobility to disrupt the Polish-Lithuanian parliament starting with Peter the Great.

Regarding Polish misdeeds (in historical context), it's hard to think of any apart from Wisniowiecki's persecution of Ukrainian peasants and Cossacks in the 17th century, where impalement was a favorite method of execution used by all sides (a practice picked up from the Mongols).

Starting with Russia's occupation during the Third partition there's an endless litany of brutalities, starting with deportations, the theft of the contents of Europe's first public library in Warsaw by the Russian governor, the absolutely brutal forced conversion of Ukrainian Catholics to Russian orthodoxy, Cossacks riding down civilians in Warsaw, etc., etc. In addition to the mass murder of the 1939-41 period (when Stalin aimed to annihilate the Polish intelligentsia as much as Hitler did), there was the mindless vandalism involving the destruction of palaces and churches, as well the grotesque postwar executions and deportations of Polish Home Army members.

German brutalities were mainly limited to the 39-44 period, while Russian atrocities span centuries.

49 posted on 06/09/2019 1:10:44 PM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens")
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To: MarvinStinson
From 1943 on, the Waffen SS included many volunteer units from the occupied countries - even in Western Europe - whose members believed they were answering the call to save Europe from the Bolsheviks. A job that might have been a lot easier if Hitler hadn't poked the hornet's nest in the first place...
50 posted on 06/09/2019 1:20:45 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ([CTRL]-[GALT]-[DELETE])
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To: pierrem15

In order to be a successful country Poland should abandon its Russia-envy. The game was played already.
As for the Russian atrocities the original Russian Independence Day is November, 4 after a day of eviction of Polish administration from Kremlin in 1612.
Another Independence Day was added on June, 12 to celebrate the Russian liberation from USSR and the original renamed a Day of National Unity in part to save the Polish feelings towards it.
As you can see both has grievances and it is mostly Russia working to overcome it.
Even during the Cold War Poland wasn’t treated by the Russians as a mere colony. Many things Polish were admired, Polish artists and writers had displays and presentations in Russia and their pop and movie stars were such in USSR too.

51 posted on 06/09/2019 1:43:28 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: mac_truck

That is it. The Nazis don’t need to be elected in huge numbers. They have gangs with guns to control elected officials. And they manage to exercise meaningful control over government.

52 posted on 06/09/2019 1:50:30 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: mac_truck; NorseViking; Pelham

Which side?

Let’s check your Ukraine wokeness

Which side has more Nazi style militias

The Russian language Pootie separatists or the media adored euromaiden sorts

Fingers crossed for u

53 posted on 06/09/2019 1:56:13 PM PDT by wardaddy (I applaud Jim Robinson for his comments on the Southern Monuments decision ...thank you)
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To: Pete Dovgan

Perhaps Ukranians have a better estimate of what Soviet occupation meant. Starvation.

54 posted on 06/09/2019 3:12:13 PM PDT by Jacquerie (
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To: wardaddy
Which side?

My side in Ukraine are secessionists fighting for their natural rights under a banner consisting of a blue St. Andrew's cross with red background.

Does that look/sound familiar?

55 posted on 06/09/2019 7:52:48 PM PDT by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
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To: Jacquerie

“” “” Perhaps Ukranians have a better estimate of what Soviet occupation meant. Starvation.”” “”

At least be a little more recent. Starvation is not coming with Communism only and certainly on table for them right now after falling into a Europe’s poorest country. Much more so than it was under Communists.

In more detail in 2015 Ukraine had the worst new car sales since... 1968. And that’s given the fact that as a part of USSR they didn’t really had a market and had years long waiting lists for automobiles at the time.

In 1970 the Soviet car market reformed to a more Western model and in 1975 Ukrainians bought 355% as many cars as they did in 2015. 390% by 1984.

Guess which political and economic system Ukraine had in 1975 and 1984?

Communism is universally viewed as an impoverishing corrisive system and correctly so but for some people it proved to be far from worst or the best they had, Ukraine included. Maybe it is too simple to say Communism or Russia or both were Ukraine’s problem?

And we were talking about the economic aspect only so far. Now let’s look at the aspect of liberty and a rather simple research would show that it was much safer to express alternative political views under Brezhnev let alone Gorbachev’s administration both Communist in Ukraine than it was under Poroshenko regime. It is really hard to imagine Gorbachev sending crowds of dimwits with facial swastika tattoos to beat journalist and trash their offices for publishing something about him he didn’t like.

There is a reason why the protestors in the East were waving Soviet flags. By all objective accounts they had it better from all sides under Communists not counting Stalinist era. And the fact is that with their life expectancies 1930s aren’t even the recent history but more like dark ages. Try a little bit reflection and imagine Georgia still having grievances with Grant and Lincoln at the center of their politics in 21th century. How would it have been worked for them?

Pointing at Putin’s Russia and remembering 1930s in that context is simply a tool of misleading population for political goals.

Russia has its problems but it went a long way working hard since USSR fell and undoubtedly improved big time. They have by far better living standards all around than they had any day under Communists or before them while for the Ukrainians 1975 is still a golden standard they won’t ever touch again anytime soon.

56 posted on 06/09/2019 9:08:18 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: mac_truck

That was a really simple question. Google pictures and you would find decently looking DNR rebels. In Ukraine it is not rare to see regular troops sporting Nazi tattoos. Militias has Nazi symbols everywhere.

57 posted on 06/09/2019 10:59:10 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking

Quit sucking that Pooty Putin propaganda.

Putin is a loser and so is Russia under Putin.

At best they are more like Iran than Germany.

58 posted on 06/09/2019 11:19:55 PM PDT by rbmillerjr
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To: rbmillerjr

Which part of it?

59 posted on 06/09/2019 11:53:01 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: mac_truck

Yes you’re on the right side

My son has followed this since he was 14 or so....

He social media communicates on 4chan etc with fighters in Donetsk

Don river Cossacks sympathetic to Russian separatists in the Ukraine

And Oplot brigade before the assassination

60 posted on 06/09/2019 11:55:25 PM PDT by wardaddy (I applaud Jim Robinson for his comments on the Southern Monuments decision ...thank you)
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