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For the most part, I agree with you. But as to the Eastern Orthodox position on heresy, I would question all the specific references to being snatched up, gathered up, to take over, to carry up, to lift up, to seize, and to change as I listed before on the first page of this thread that are in the Bible.

When I have a plethora of references that refer to a God-driven event associated with the Day of the Lord, I have to conclude there is something more to it than an idle curiosity. I don't think the Rapture as it is commonly known will appear like it is portrayed in the "Left Behind" series. As a matter of fact, I don't think those left behind will recognize it for what it is (I think from a description of them in Rev 6:15-17 that they don't understand much at all, they get most things wrong or they wouldn't be left behind in the first place); it may be so far outside our preconceived notions as to defy belief.

Now whether it is dangerous to one's salvation, that is an entertaining idea. For I do think that there are those that may not be prepared for demonic persecution and oppression that I do read as being in store for Christians during the end times. For that reason, I am writing a commentary because I do not want to see people throw their salvation away and pursue wickedness. After reading Ezekiel 18, I have to wonder if those professing to be Christians but really are hypocrites are indeed in the Father's hand. Likewise, you can profess to be born again, but if you accept the mark of the beast, you will have no place in the book of life. As a warning to myself, I have to endure patiently as well and continue to try to walk in the way of the Lord, to become more like Christ Jesus.

But even though the wise may stumble and fall, (Daniel 11:35) God is still able to redeem them, so even if I don't attain perfection, although it is a goal set by Jesus, I can be justified by Christ so as to wash my robe clean in the blood of the Lamb and be able to stand before God with a great multitude of people.

Likewise, I have struggled with the faith alone position as have Christian scholars before me. That is why James' book was questioned because it seemed to differ from what Paul and John had written. But now I see that works are an outward manifestation of faith. And if there is faith, and that is the criteria since God judges the heart, then there will be some outward sign of that in our works. However, the reverse is not always true. Just because you are "good" does not mean you have put your faith in Jesus to save you.

I am going to give a short version of how I view the book of Revelation. First of all, it does not contain so much figurative images as it does explain them. Without this book, a proper story cannot be made of Old Testament prophecy. And without Jesus' words in the Olivet Discourse, the timeline in the Seal chronology cannot be tied to the seventieth 'seven' at all.

The book of Revelation is divided into parts, parallel accounts as it were. I am not the first to notice this. However, my analysis may vary from others in how I divide the book. For my purposes, not having a school of eschatology to defend, but just looking at the Bible for what it does say, I came realize a rule was in effect for differentiating parallel accounts: there has to be both a change of focus and a change of scene.

Because Revelation is written with overlapping parallel accounts, it cannot be read as a novel straight through. Doing that repeats several unique and specific events and confuses the sequence of any whole timeline approach. The manner of prophecy is like a limited view of each component in a complex movement. While it will be experienced in whole like listening to an orchestra: to foretell it is like to write a symphony section by section. Revelation is like reading the composition of a symphony by reading each written part -by part.

Discounting John’s narrative as a single account to order the events then sets each of the visions to be analyzed within their own context. Switching to the analogy of film, instead of looking at different major divisions as scene changes in a single movie; each parallel account -literally like another movie- films the future from a different vantage point in order to cover all the action occurring at different levels. Discerning the time each vision spans thus depends upon the evidence within each one. Historical time markers that are specific and unique, repeated specific and unique events and repeated time markers will allow for an assignment of time spans based on what the Bible has written.

The First parallel account has to do with the Churches. While each Church is physically present in the first century A.D., each Church's description includes a future promise in the Kingdom. Because of this aspect, chapers 2 and 3 can be viewed as being over 2000 years long and spanning the Church Age.

The Second parallel account is the Seal Chronology. While it starts with the description of the Heavenly Court, the focus changes as the Lamb opens the Seals (but not the scene). The first four Seals reveal the inception of the four horsemen and in Zechariah 6, you can see how these horsemen grow to be chariots of horses as they come out of Heaven and go forth to do their work in the world. This shows that the forces these horsemen represent grow over time. The Seal chronology starts in 4:1 and goes to the end of chapter 11. I maintain that the third woe is not expressed in this parallel account as John more than obeys the order to seal up what the seven thunders said and not write it down. I think the timeline for the Seals does not follow the seven years because of the pegging of the sixth Seal following the midweek point as per Jesus' Olivet Discourse in the Synoptic Gospel accounts. I allow that the Seal chronology make take a much longer time for it to be accomplished, and debating the nature of the first horseman, could have started as early as the nineteenth century with the industrial revolution.

The Third parallel account lies inserted in side the second almost as a sidebar issue. It goes from 11:1 to 11:13. Here the change of focus goes from the Seals to the Temple. There is also a change of scene to an earthly realm. John does not detail his measurements, but I would ask who is it that Ezekiel sees as the man in bronze who is measuring the Temple in Ezekiel 40:3 if not John. The Temple account is seven years long. The first half for the Gentiles, and the second for the two witnesses as God takes over. (We know the witnesses are in the second half, as they are killed by the beast of the Abyss loosed in the Fifth Seal.)

The Fourth parallel account focuses on Israel with a major scene change. It starts with the birth of our Savior and goes into the first half of the seventieth 'seven.' This encompasses verses 12:1-6 and takes about 2000 years.

The Fifth parallel account focuses on Satan with another scene change. Opening up Revelation 12:7 this event spans the next two verses; it describes a battle that allows us to give an approximate time to this event. Through the time of the flood, Satan was able to directly access God as told in Job. At Christ’s birth from the previous parallel account of the woman in Revelation 12:4, Satan is still in that heavenly realm. During Christ’s ministry Jesus describes a similar event to Revelation in Luke 10:18; both have Satan as the accuser displaced from access to Heaven. This happens sometime during Christ’s first advent when Jesus invades the domain of Satan, the strongman, and has power to bind him (and so cast out demons).

Coming to the close a similar event repeats and protection is afforded again for the woman for three and half years. This event chronicles protection for either half of the seventieth ‘seven,’ or this is a repetition of a specific and unique event from the account of the woman: protection afforded Israel by God from Satan. Finally, there is the first definition problem, as this parallel account ties up with the offspring of Israel. This account of the dragon spans a period of time from Jesus’ ministry with his first advent to some time in the seventieth ‘seven.’ This account ends with the opening of chapter 13:1 where the next character is introduced. The fifth parallel account lies directly over the fourth and likewise takes approximately 2000 years.

The Sixth parallel account from chapter 13 through chapter 16 focuses on the beasts emanating from the dragon. This parallel account spans the seven years of the seventieth 'seven.' This chronicles the offensive nature of the beasts and their destruction. This follows a major theme in the Bible, idolatrous worship as the most detestable practice and the consequence of God’s judgment for it. This account has a two-step fashion then, the first in chapter 13 covering the first half week enumerating the magnitude of the offence and a change of scene in chapter 14 which literally shows the consequences when God acts going to the end of 16 for the second half week. Within God’s active involvement on the earth, there is an elemental sequence. The scene change in chapter 14 shows God’s saving or harvesting of the earth. After that the scene changes to the pouring out of God’s wrath. This idea of saving and then destroying is the same as John the Baptist said of Christ gathering his wheat and burning the chaff. Jesus’ own parable of the weeds sown among the wheat follows the same course, the weeds are bundled, the wheat brought into the barn and then the weeds are burned (suggested as an action to be done since verb burn is expressed as an infinitive in the Greek: to be burned).

The Seventh parallel account details the end of the reign of the beast and reveals further information on a mystery. An angel from the bowls takes John aside and so changes the scene. The focus changes as well from detailing the unfolding of God’s plan to an explanation of the object of His wrath in threefold fashion, the Harlot, the Beast and Babylon. This provides detailed information that reveals some mysteries as is the nature of the book. This account runs through chapters 17 and 18; it literally describes the day and the hour of their destruction at the end of the seventieth ‘seven’ from the sixth parallel account.

Chapter 19 marks a scene change back to the heavenly throne and the focus changes as well to Jesus now as conqueror going out to battle. Here Revelation reverts to a storyline linear fashion backing up into the seventieth ‘seven’ to show how God is victorious and the conclusion of His plan of Salvation for the Christian. In sequential fashion, it moves into the time beyond the seventieth ‘seven’ and as some would say for the first time in prophecy mentions the Millennial Period (although this period is covered by the Prophets both major and minor).

This will be my last post about this subject to you. If you don't get it, you don't get it. I do not like how easily you start insulting institutions like Seminaries by calling them "cemeteries." This does not mark you as a reasonable person to have a discussion with at all. I have spoken with more than one person who has this notion that only the King James Version came from God and it is the only "right" Bible. I also know a lot of churches that are legalistic too. These things happen among men; I just don't have a lot of time to waste dealing with people who take such a view of things.

I have a Jewish Bible. Of course, they don't call it such. It is The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic text. A New Translation with the aid of previous versions and with constant consultation of Jewish authorities. (As printed inside the cover page) And is printed in Philadelphia by the Jewish Publication Society of America, copywrite 1917, 1945 and 1955.

Guess what? It doesn't have the brother of in 2nd Samuel 21:19 either.

I have my King James Version. In the notes on the Amplified Bible, it lists that "Italics point out: 1. certain familiar passages now recognized as not adequately supported by the original manuscripts. This is the primary use of italics in the New Testament, so that, upon encountering italics, the reader is alerted to a matter of textual readings. Often these will be accompanied by a footnote. and 2. conjunctions such as "and,' "or,' and the like, not in the original text, but used to connect additional English words indicated in the same original word."

Guess what? the brother of is italicized in 2nd Samuel 21:19. It is not found in the original. The King James translators put it there though because they were paying attention as they translated it and noticed the incongruity in the Hebrew text.

You say this (error) shows the NIV and other modern works are "work of Man." I have news for you. Men wrote the Bible. Men then copied the writing. To this day, we cannot be 100% sure of any one man writing any book in the Old Testament at all. And the authorship of certain books in the New Testament is in doubt as well. But even the ones we do know about were the work of men.

I just believe they were divinely inspired for the most part. Now Samuel is a history book. It is not like the Law, the first five books or even the prophets. Those have the highest order of inspiration. And here's another thing for you: the Masoretic text foundation was not the only text lineage the Disciples had when Jesus walked the Earth. We have whole other lines of Old Testament Scripture when we found the Dead Sea Scrolls. And in there they found a book of 1st Samuel that is judged to be better than what we have in the Masoretic text.

Now you can read about this in Jeffery Sheler's Is the Bible True? and you can read about various version of the Bible and how we got to the modern versions and why the King James Version has errors in it too by reading Philip W. Comfort's Essential Guide to Bible Versions.

So I can back up what I declare with support from accredited authors that footnote and supply a proper bibliography with their work. Your test in 2nd Samuel 21:19 just shows that man is fallible and a known error exists in the Masoretic Text -and nothing more.

You have judged me incorrectly. I have been overseas and I am not in some masonic system of theology. I use generally accepted texts such as Bromiley's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Fritz Rienecker and Cleon Rogers Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament, Grudem's Systematic Theology, various commentaries including the Expositor's, various Zondervan and Libronix Bible programs for computers, various exhaustive Concordances for different versions with their lexicons, and Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament edited in part by a premier Hebrew scholar, Gleason L. Archer Jr.

Furthermore, I am not interested in getting into personal stories of spiritual background to say I'm better than you or visa versa. I have found when people cannot make an argument for a position in a discussion they typically shift the focus to the person rather than the subject at hand.

If you cannot discuss the language of the Bible, and present a view that is inline with the whole of the Bible in a systematic manner and maintain the integrity of the language through translation and so render a proper interpretation, I am not willing to go off on this tangent with you.

Likewise, I have answered your protest of the modern versions and have found it does not try to dupe anyone into believing anything other than what has been corrected in the KJV. This does not prove the superiority of the KJV since they are operating with the same source text error -they just added a correction in 2nd Samuel. If you want to excoriate the NIV, then you can prosecute your case. I want to talk about the Rapture.

My apologies:

the name is more than a little of a consequence to dismiss.

Should have read:

the name is a little more than of a coincidence to dismiss.

I will be happy to elaborate this evening when I get home.

I'll gladly read it, but I will be out for Friday and Saturday and may not be able to respond for a while.

You wrote:

There will be two in the field, the one will be taken (as in judgment) If you read a little further on , it speaks of where the Carcass is, their the eagles(vultures) will be gathered. This refers to the Battle of Armageddon.

I disagree.

After the Rapture (which from the Greek is translated into Latin, and comes from the act of being caught up we see in Paul’s explanation to the Thessalonians) we find evidence for the Great Multitude in Heaven with the Sixth Seal in Revelation 7:9. After that, there is a period of silence (proving there are no cell phones in Heaven -a little levity for you there) which marries the silence Amos 8:3 describes with bodies being flung everywhere. Then there is the Wrath of God with the Seventh Seal.

The Seventh Seal reveals four trumpets, the first four act in thirds upon the Earth. The last three are woes. The text in Revelation 11 omits the third woe, but it is revealed later as the seven bowl judgments. Only after all this does our Lord go out with His host (the 144,000) to do battle.

P.S. There is no Armageddon mentioned in the Bible other than the one mention of it in Rev 16:16. Now there is a Har Magedon which would be the mountain by the plain of Megiddo in the hill country of Ephraim. This is an ancient battle field involved in Israel's battle for existence going back to the times of conquering the Promised Land. Whether this represents a scribal error or not, the name is more than a little of a consequence to dismiss.

Who killed Goliath, and what does your FALSE Bible say about it in 2.Sam.21:19?

This corruption of the Masoretic text is the result of a copy error in the text. The KJV shows the addition of a correct by inserting the brother of in italics showing it is an addition as well and was not in the original Masoretic text.

The actual person killed was Lahmi and can be read in 1 Chronicles 20:5 in both the KJV and the NIV.

I'm sorry, but copy errors happen among scribes. While the NIV and NASB both have this error, both also correct them in the notes and commentary.

Based on this one word test, which I avoid, you could say both versions are "corrupt" based on one known error in the Masoretic text. This puts the accuracy of the OT text we have at something less than 100%, perhaps 99.99%.

Again, I see no demonic influence that prevents me from using the modern texts based on this test of yours.

Now could we get back to the Rapture without you sidelining and diverting the thread?

You wrote:

Secondly, to answer your comment about the Greek, the answer is Yes and No,. The "Greek" you are referring to here, does agree, I believe, with the "Byzantine", ( I am sitting in a public place on "their" computer, and have no "material" such as a Bible with me at this time, I apologize for that) However, your conclusion is incorrect.

This is interesting, as the KJV did not have a good Greek copy of Revelation and so used the Latin, translated that back into Greek, and then into English. The book of Revelation in the KJV is perhaps, its weakest point.

If you cannot tell me what the proper inflected Greek is for "harvested," then you have no basis for your conclusion. Anyone can say this is that or that is this, but without any substantiation, it is nothing more than just a declarative statement.

You wrote:

If you will take a moment and read Mt. 13:24-43, in the KJV, you should be able to understand it.

I understand that in the world there are two groups, the wicked and the righteous. And in concert with Ezekiel chapter 18:20b-27, there are two outcomes for them. The tares are the wicked and the wheat is the righteous. Jesus' parable is exactly inline with other timeline sequences of events which stipulates that the righteous are harvested and then the wicked are burned. This follows the theological principle that those of us who have "washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb" are to be spared the Wrath of God, and are not going to be judged with the world.

You wrote:

In the Mt.24, the word "taken", is in context of judgment, or death, hence the warning for the believing "Jews" to flee out of Jerusalem "when they see" the setting up of the "Abomination that maketh desolate".

I disagree.

You have not done any word study on taken or you wouldn't say that it is used in reference to "judgment" which I would say is taken (no pun intended) out of context.

You wrote:

...you are reading the "wrong" Bible, now please bear with me for one moment. The NIV is based on two "surviving" (as in never used) Eusebio/Wescott/Hort "Frauds",in the "Classical Greek", called "Vaticanus-B" and "Sianiticus-codex-Aleph". This is what we refer to as "corrupted text"

I have researched this extensively, and your complaint is a little dated. The modern versions of the Bible, including Zondervan's NIV which I use for simplicity of language with its thought-for-thought format, are based not on Wescott/Hort but rather on the Greek New Testament texts of Nestle-Aland (27th edition, 1993).

I have done an extensive research so I don't use "corrupted text" in order to present my commentary. Using Essential Guide to Bible Versions by Philip W. Comfort Ph.D., I have made a comparison between the KJV and NIV portions of Luke which go back to the earliest Alexandrian papyri we have (P75) and have concluded the additions (which describes in large part the differences the Byzantine texts have when compared to the Alexandrian sources) do not make a material difference.

The Byzantine texts are noted for their smooth Greek, and as Dr. Comfort explains, the textual critics regard that type of text as showing subsequent editing to the manuscripts. Textual critics tend to favor the shorter when it can be shown that material was not erroneously omitted (as can be shown in various texts).

My conclusion is that you can use whatever Bible version you feel comfortable with, and if you're fluent in Shakespearean English, the King James Version is just fine. But since every indication we have after all the recent research in the past several decades with information unavailable before shows that the Apostles and earliest NT writers used the common everyday language of the people, then I ought to be able to do the same. I also like the NASB for the best word-for-word translation and use that for my study Bible.

While I own and like the Revised KJV, I am wary that anyone would restrict me on a legalistic basis that only the KJV is the proper version to use.

You wrote:

I am a retired Army Chaplain, currently working on a doctorate in religious studies, and teaching classes for adults, college (US Air Force Academy, formerly West Point), and high school (homeschool enrichment classes in a Biblical Worldview). I was ordained in 1979.

To which I say: impressive. We might even be around the same age and I am an veteran as well (USAF).

Since Sorensen does not seem interested in a dialogue here, although I don't think he's totally off track, what are your eschatological views?

I have talked at length with my Pastor, who incidentally favors a post-Trib position about my mid-Trib, or more correctly put, pre-Wrath Rapture position. He has said I have made some impressive arguments for my position. I even presented (with his concurrence) a two-part presentation to my church last year in lieu of regular services to explain the mid-Trib position.

I am interested in any views you might have on those things I have written on here in this thread as well as your own position and interpretation of Scripture.

I have created an 'about page.'

You wrote:

"That there must be a falling away FIRST, and the MAN of SIN, (the personal ANTI-CHRIST ) be revealed. This, together with God' revealed "timetable" in the Old Testament, Indicates very precisely the time lines of events, doing away with the false Imminent theory. That is why the scriptures so often encourage our "Patience", as we are waiting,and not to "grow weary", while waiting, which you would become if Immanency was your daily practice.

To which I say I am in total agreement.

(emphasis added)

I am more interested in having a dialogue on your interpretation. Could you please respond here so we could both learn from each other and others learn from us?

You said:

In Rev.14:14-20, you have two separate companies spoken of , and a distinction has to be made between them. This is why one needs to pay attention to Mt. 13:24-43, as it "sheds light", on the text in Rev.14.

I agree that Isaiah says the Root of Jesse, (Jesus) will gather the exiles of Israel (remembering we Gentiles are grafted into the tree of Israel) in Isaiah 11:12.

ISA 11:12 He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.

But Jesus also said He (the Son of Man) would send his angels out to gather the elect from the four winds in Matthew 24:31.

^MT24:31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Now how can this be? Is it one or the other?

Revelation 14:14-20 shows that Scripture is cannot be broken as Jesus Himself said. The Son of Man indeed initiates the Harvest, and then He commands His angels to complete the task.

First of all, the verb tense at Revelation 14:16 is not in the past tense as translated in our English versions. When you read and the earth was harvested as I have here in the NIV, the was is added to the text to aid in translation. harvested is in the aorist tense which means it is a summary occurrence, passive voice and indicative mood which may have the action occurring in the future, past or present. So we should not read the Jesus finishes the Harvest in verse 14:16. I think you have to look at the grapes in the second part as being the same grapes in the first, they are both to be gathered, not burnt from the text in Rev 14. This would qualify them both as being "wheat" from Jesus' parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13.

The question of the winepress in Revelation 14:19 is interesting. If Paul is correct that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, and this gathering is largely of souls, then what does God do with the bodies of the believers that still alive and are left that are gathered up?

I would agree that there is not a singular 'gathering' of the elect, or Saints or the chosen (your choice as to how I think the Bible refers to Christ's Church).

However, this does not diminish the language which points to a gathering of a great multitude in one event.

I am interested in exploring your study on aparche or firstfruits. In particular, I would be interested in how you interpret 1Cor 15:20, as well as the other uses of this word.

I am also interested in how you determine there are seven distinct and different "orders" to the first Resurrection which I see as being complete when the fifth Seal is completed and the total host redeemed from the Earth is present in God's Court as per Rev 20:5.

Shotgunjohn, I like how you presented Paul's eschatology. The principle you bring out is the linear aspect of the Bible.

I think this is an important key in understanding how radically different Scripture as defined by Jesus is than other religions from antiquity. The majority of them have a cyclical nature, borne of a woman. This reflects man's observations of the seasons and natural life. It is not too much of a stretch to see that this view was extrapolated into the cosmos and conferred onto a deity.

However, the Bible is unique in having a linear aspect to it. The world begins not with birth, but with the power of God's Word. It was not until the 20th century when we as man finally understood how something could come into existence from just such a power until Einstein postulated that E=mc².

Also, the Bible is unique in saying that there is an end to the world. Peter's prophetic announcement that the universe is consumed with fire, goes against the scientific conclusion that if everything continues as it is, that we will die a heat death as entropy winds down and the universe eventually becomes a cold dark world billions of years hence. Instead, God steps in and releases the energy contained in the matter that makes up the universe.

How Moses and Peter came to pronounce complex nuclear physics without any education centuries ahead of their time either is a happy coincidence or is evidence of the revelation of truth by God.

You said:

It isn't terribly complicated; Paul says that when Jesus returns, "the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call andd with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; and then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the Clouds to meet the Lord in the air...."

A legal scholar would view the coming of the Lord, with the angels and the trumpets, as a condition precendent to the raising of those "asleep in Christ" and those still alive, who are merely those that haven't fallen asleep in Christ. A condition precedent must occur first. He will return, then we will be taken into His kingdom.

To which I say, hear-hear.

I don't know your position in regards to the idea of the Rapture, or resurrection of the living, but I applaud your preparation for oppression by the demonic. I also applaud your effort to be watchful, and your anticipation of future reward.

Likewise, no matter how we would view eschatology, and there are many conflicting views, we should not allow those views to divide our focus on Christ Jesus' saving power for each of us personally.

First of all, I have to write that this is a much shorter version of other writings. My chronology analysis (which uses some Biblical tools that I have underlined here) hinges on overlaying various prophetic accounts by indications of specific and unique events used as markers and laying out the various linear sequences of events between them to fill in the gaps that may be contained within a single prophetic account.

If this analysis is correct, and so far all the applicable (Old and New Testament, major and minor prophets) et-qes or teleosis (end-time) accounts seem to fit within a single model, then there is a relation between the loosening of the four angels with the sixth trumpet and the paving of the way for the Kings of the East with the sixth bowl (the bowl judgments I have surmised represent the third woe -showing the depth of God's wrath and being last would belong to the seventh trumpet which as the third woe is not revealed in the Seal chronology of chapters 6-11) John omitted entirely when asked just to seal up what the seventh trumpet angel said.

From the Seals, a parallel account within the book of Revelation spanning chapters 6 through 11, the sixth trumpet loosens four angels kept for that very hour. Associated with the killing is an army of two hundred million. John says he heard the number in reciting his vision. You get the idea that relating this vision is not a complete picture, there are other aspects that are not related to the reader. To some, this omission may offend them, however, there are enough of the pieces left to form a general picture.

In the parallel account of Rev 13-16, which I think describes the actual seventieth 'seven' of Daniel 9:27, in preparation of the final battle of Armageddon, a way is made for the Kings of the East. This then leads to the final battle of all the world against God, specifically Jesus and the 144,000. The details of this battle can be read from another parallel account from the heavenly perspective on the end of the seventieth 'seven' and advancing the timeline through the millennial period contained in chapters 19-22, specifically in verse 19:11 to the end of that chapter.

Previously, the world geopolitics has been locked in a East/West struggle between Capitalism and Communism. For years, I could not fathom how such a North/South displacement of power would become a reality because of my American Cold War perspective. However, now as events have developed, the iron curtain crumbled with nary a shot taken, and what was a large part of the second world, or Communism, has been assimilated into the West. What was the Soviet Union, has just become Russia. Russia is experiencing a difficult transition from Marxist economics to Adam Smith's as it adopts capitalism. (Even China has adopted Capitalism for its economics so that I look at Capitalism as having conquered the world without firing a shot -reminiscent of the first horseman having a bow to project his power but no arrows or sword.) As such, Russia has become aligned with its ancient Romanesque roots which permeated northward centuries ago from the eastern half of the Roman Empire dating from the fourth century.

Currently, there is unprecedented cooperation between former enemies in the East/West struggle over a new enemy: terrorism. This is contained within the Muslim world as a splinter of Islam which focuses on Jihad. Looking at the globe, if you view America, Europe and Russia, you will see that physically they comprise a nearly complete band of nations in the northern half of the Northern Hemisphere. Directly below them in another band for most of the world's landmass are Muslim countries. And more than coincidently in my opinion, in between is Jerusalem.

After the Cold War, I think the War on Terror may be the basis for this North/South conflict. Bernard Lewis writes extensively on Islam and views it as being on a collision course with the "West," technology, and our general (Greek/Roman) way of life. When President Bush used words like "Peace and Safety" repeated as he did in his State of the Union address of a year and a half ago, I took note. This present time is not in the end-times proper, but it is certainly setting the stage for the imposition of power by the King of the North in Daniel chapters 11 from verse 36-45. I view Daniel 11:31 as acting like a lens of dual focus whereby the atrocities committed by Antiochus Epiphanes in the second century B.C. -which is during the 62 weeks- as being a springboard for a more cataclysmic but similar event further out in time, specifically the Antichrist leading up to his placing the Abomination in the Temple. I would ask the reader to compare the events taking place in Daniel 11:45 to another multiple account of what I think is the same event in Luke 21:20.

The Bible certainly seems centered on Rome. I think this is because of the powerful influence the Roman world, and in my opinion that we as the "West" have inherited as a mantle of being Roman, has had and continues to have on the state of Israel. It must be remembered that when Rome was at its height during the time of the Caesars, there was a similarly large and powerful Han dynasty in China. However, because of geography and people, it has been Europe and not China that has played the major role in world events. I think this is why Paul was diverted from his initial inclination to go east and was sent into modern day Turkey, Greece and Italy. Europe would be the nursery for Christianity and the vehicle to spread it through the world. Far from being a European religion though, the greatest number of Christian converts and believers are now in the second and third worlds as great strides are being made in Africa and Asia.

In one respect, China is not forgotten by God. This huge nation which has conspicuously absent from Biblical events can be shown in these two instances of prophecy, being the only nation large enough to boast of such an army, which it has, and being situated in the East -to be a key player right at the end of this present age.

Likewise, I also see modern day America, Russia and European Union as being represented in Daniel's first three of four beasts. I view the fourth beast as being an amalgamation of the these three in federation (having a ruling council of ten kings -for one hour acting as kings) and more importantly from John's description of the terrible beast as being the combination of parts of Daniel's beasts (in inverse fashion which also gives some clue as the part each will play). This combination of present day nations is supported in Daniel's text such that when the fourth beast is destroyed, the previous three beasts are still alive and allowed to exist for a short time (Daniel 7:12). What is broken with the terrible beast then is the combined nation, the power structure that holds it together and wielded its combined might.

Another way of saying the first part of what I tried to communicate is that Noah was removed from harms way by God is analogous to the Christian being removed from harms way in the Rapture.

In each case, you have a rescue effort. In Noah's case it is the ark they had prepared. In the future case, it is the saving power of God through Christ Jesus where those that are alive and are left are literally snatched up.

In each case, you have the following wrath of God. In Noah's case it was the flood. In the future case it will be the seven trumpets, the first four working in thirds upon the earth and the last three being woes. The seventh trumpet shows the depth of God's wrath and is revealed as seven bowl judgments that work in total.

Do these analogies help?