Free Republic

If fact, we need to be increasing green house gasses. The facts show that we're comming up on another ice age.

Exactly, well put.

It's not up to us to give reasons why the law shouldn't exist, it's up to the pro-WOD crowd to tell us why it should exist. And guess what... they won't be able to!

We need to take the arguement to the other side.

Yeah, I think these Muslim groups need to realize that we don't resort to violence as easily as they do.

Great read...

But what I don't get is why we conservatives are actually discussing the whole weapons of mass distruction issue. Bush said it himself. The Iraq war was not only to prevent Saddam from using his weapons. But this was also the next step in the war against terrorism. And if any liberal jackass tries to contradict you, just mention Saddams funding of the sucide bomber families... If that's not supporting terrorism... I don't know what is?

Amazing but true, I've never smoked marijuana before, nor do I plan too. But it's great to be insulted by someone twice my age... gives me a tingling feeling all over.

But just to let you know... post 159, this anecdotal evidence is crap. The statement I made was true, and there's data to back it up. And when you rejected the statement, you inturn implied that I made it up.

Thank you for admiting I won the arguement.

Later

StringTheory: You called me a liar first

newgeezer: Show me where. I'll retract it and apologize.

How about answering my question first... don't change the subject, something that you acuse me of.

Again.... What initial assertion? What's WAY past ridiculous?

I think the wierdest statement you have made so far is to suggest that we can keep kids from selling drugs to each other by making drugs legal.

I never made such statement. You misread or misunderstood my point. The current laws encourage children to sell drugs, for one simple reason. The desire of money, financial gain, profit. Now I'm not changing the subject, I'm taking it a step futher... Legalizing drugs removes all profits for dealers. Why? Who's going purchase drugs from a dealer when they can get it from government shops.

It's true the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. Why are you going out of your way not to see it.

You also say that the only reason they sell it to each other is because it IS illegal...

I didn't say the only reason they sell it to each other is because it's illegal. Please stop twisting my words! I don't twist yours. I stated that the only reason children sell drugs is to make money. The fact that drugs are illegal isn't what makes children sell them, it's the fact that they can make money. Hence, the fact that drugs are illegal, and allow profits to be made, is what gives people the incentive and the reason to sell them. The only way to stop the "social selling" of illegal drugs is to legalize. Plain and simple.

...and you also say that we would never make it legal for kids.

Correct, we would never sell it to kids. I think you're making the point that children will need someone to purchase it for them. This is true, but there won't be any reason for children to bump up the prices and continue to sell it in schools. Because if it was legal... even underage users wouldn't purchase it at inflated prices. They would have their older bother buy it for them. Or someone with a fake ID. However it's obtained doesn't matter and isn't even the issue. What does matter is that there's no longer any kids trying to sell it to them. This is why 50% of Highschool seniors have tried marijuana at least once. Peer pressure is real. It's just a little different from what the left would have you think.

So, you're calling me a liar. How quaint.

Well, to put in terms you can understand... You called me a liar first

What initial assertion? What's WAY past ridiculous? Please, in order for us to discuss the issue, you actually need to write about it. Your snide remarks, false analogies, and anecdotal evidence are not in anyway the standard characteristics of argument.

I'll keep making the sexual analogies. Please tell me one way we can get teens to stop having sex before they are married. The answer is that we can't but condoning it is obviously not the solution.

Well, again there's a problem with your sexual analogy. You're equating legalization as condoning drug use. I've heard this arguement before... "We don't need to be sending messages to our children that marijuana use is ok."

Legalization, without any guide-lines may be condoning... but we would never sell this stuff to children. Not even Holland allows children into their cannabis cafes. Legalizing marijuana would save the US Government over 20 billion dollars a year. 20 billion would be enough for the government to pay for drug tests for every child 8 - 17 years old the entire US, twice a week, while still have around 10 billion left over.

Obviously this sounds nuts right? Drug testing every child in America; but then isn't spending twice that, and not accomplishing anything even more nuts?

Anyway, through proper restrictions, school courses, and advertising, it could be made very clear that these policy changes are not in any way encouraging people to try drugs.

As a former daily stoner who quit every time -- including the final time -- due to inconvenience (moving away from college and not knowing where to get it), I can say "B*llsh*t!" to that without ANY reservations.

A little late on the reply since I missed it... If you were a former stoner, you would know how simple it is to find it. I found out my boss uses it when I noticed his slightly bloodshot eyes, and smell of marijuana smoke from a pen he handed me.

But for your sake... lets even say marijuana use would double if legalized. When you double the "zero deaths" marijuana caused last year, and the year before that, and the year before that... need I go on.... you still get zero.

Yes, it's absolutely true, around 90% of pot smokers use it responsibly. Obviously your definition of "responsibly" isn't on the ball. I will give you this... someone who doesn't smoke marijuana has made a better choice than someone who does.

Source for that statistic came from a book I recently read. I forgot the name of the book, but if you don't trust me I'll stop by the library and check it out again.

Tell me this, what's irresponsible about someone smoking a joint of marijuana, once a week in their home? Over half of America's pot smokers use it less than 4 times a month.

No, I haven't demonized a "mere plant". Drug abusers have demonized and abused plants (coca leaves, poppies, hemp) not me.

Huh? Ok drug abusers abuse drugs... well... yeah you're right there I guess... but your wrong when you say you haven't demonized this plant. You want our Government to continue to spend over 20 billion dollars a year putting people in jail for growing it... and arresting people who simply possess it! What we should do is make plants like daffodils, mistletoe, elderberry illegal. They all have killed numerous people...your logic would say yes?

WRONG BUDDY,

You can drink alcohol without getting drunk, but the idea of smoking dope IS to get stoned. This puts pot in the same category as cocaine, heroin, crank, etc. These are all self-destructive substances that can't be used "responsibly".

Anyone after only one drink can feel the efects of alcohol. But that's not even the point... Illegal drugs CAN and ARE used responsibly. 90% of the people who do use marijuana, use it very responsibly. You've demonized a mere plant??? Why??? Self-destructive substances??? It's a fact that about 10% of the population have addictive personalities. 10% of the people who use any drug... that includes alcohol... will become addicted to it. The other 90% do not. These people go on living very normal lives. Why then you ask don't we know about these people. The answer is obvious!!! The only illegal drug users we see are the ones that abuse it. I'm sorry GLDNGUN but you're twisting the facts, not us.

Here's your problem if you want to be frank. You are more interested in legalizing your vice than to see what you consider an even more dangerous vice be made illegal. Simply put, you care not what is best for society, but only what will satisy your selfish desires. Yes, it's natural for people to think of #1 before anyone else. And this is why we have laws.

I guess there a a few people who argue more legalization of marijuana becuase they want to use it without the hassles of it being illegal.

But what we're saying that doesn't seem to sink into your head. Our entire platform states legalized marijuana would be far preferable to illegal marijuana. There really isn't way to prove it, but it's a fact that if marijuana was legalized tomorrow, there would be less deaths every year from the crazed drug war.

I also understand that this issue must seem crazy for you. Whenever you hear people arguing in favor of legalzing. But trust me, it's not because we (non-drug using legalization supporters) support self destructive behavior, but that we honestly believe less people would killed, hurt, and positive steps can be taken to minimize many of the health problems we have today. At least you can understand it would be much easier for drug addicts to recieve the help they need when their addiction wasn't illegal.

I'm 20, but I guessing you figured that one since I mentioned my age in a previous post.

I am encourage however than you didn't bother challenging me again, did convince you that marijuana should at least be decriminalized?

And what about this????

If pot is legal and even MORE accessible even MORE people who are predisposed to drug use will become hard drug addicts. If pot is less accessible then even MORE people who would be predisposed to graduating to hard drug use WILL NEVER GET THERE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T START WITH POT. You'd have to be pretty damned stoned to not see the logical connection.

Marijuana is as accessible as it needs to be. The current laws to jackshit to prevent people from obtaining it. And who cares if marijuana use even doubled after legalizing... marijuana use fluctuates all the time!!! Why do you worry about a small increase? Marijuana use DOUBLED over the past decade, while funding to eraticate it TRIPLED. Alcohol use never fluctuates over 10%. Since it's legal... its use appears to be very stable.

Ok, the problem with your arguement I'm seeing is your putting everything on this sad gateway theory. Marijuana is just one of dozens of intoxicating substances. If marijuana didn't exist, your gateway theory would point to whatever illegal drug that was most widely used. Just to let you know, I know more people who started of of painkillers to go on to harder drugs than marijuana. Yeah, have you ever heard of oxycotin, or vicodin, drugs that give you better highs than marijuana some people say... and their availability? Children can find them in their parents medicine cabnet. Maybe we should just make ingesting anything substance other than food illegal. That would solve all our problems right???

Wow, you again misunderstood what I was saying.

Your logic would seem to say teenage drinking would be a LARGER problem than it is today, if alcohol was totally illegal, rather than being available at every convenience and grocery store.

That's a hypothetical scenario, you have the right to make hypothetical predictions since of course my logic is transgressing into the hypothetical..
but I wasn't talking about alcohol was I, I was talking about the illegal drug known by the name of marijuana. Known back in the 1930's as devil's-weed. I'm sure you've heard this before. Let me get to my point... marijuana will always be available... The question then is... Which is more preferable? Children having someone to buy their marijuana for them... at a government store like liquor in some states... Or... do you want it pushed at them all the way throught school? Marijuana shouldn't be a commodity.

Marijuana that is decriminalized remind you. No brands, thus creating no incentive to adverise, it's preventing product recognition. In this scenerio it's a probably a fact that there would be less marijuana smokers. According to the data in my last post above, it's hard to explain otherwise. If you can I would be willing to read it.

But to get back to your hypothetical, your questioning would more children or people, drink alcohol than now? I don't know... I bet it wouldn't be a whole lot less! During prohibition the people abviously missed alcohol... there were just as many users during prohibion than after.

Also a pointer out. The stress on the american school children... that's becuase of one fact... people after leaving, graduating, whatever from school, who use any illegal drug for the first time, are 5 times less likely to continue to using that drug than a highschool student. It appears the teenage years are the key.

Yes, you are absolutely correct, it is impossible to overdose on marijuana.

The real question from that fact leads a lot of us to ask... Why are we aresting over 700,000 american, every year, wasting billions of tax payer dollars, stoping people from smoking this plant. And the current laws make it easier for our children to obtain it!

Ok, you right there, I was being sarcastic with a completely drug free society.

But the problem with alcohol is adults and the entertainment industry make alcohol very appealing. Thank you Hollywood. What do you think the reaction would be to something like the Budweiser frogs saying "mari" "wan" "na". You would hear from a few angry people. But I'm not sure if we could ever rely on popular culture to regard as drug use as wrong and immoral. But with enough advertising I'm sure would could have a positive impact. But just remember, there won't be any change to what is happening now, there wont be anymore regular users if we legalized.

My contention to that statment is if you legalize the current illegal drugs, we can start off on the right foot. Hopefully the government wouldn't allow their to be any brands... no reason for advertising. Which would prevent the pot frogs from ever happening.

I'm hoping most children will just stick with alcohol or even marijuana and not get into the hard stuff. That's what most studies have shown in countries that have legalized all drugs. How many people have used marijuana in the past month in the US? Currently it’s 10% of the population, how about the Netherlands? Less than half that, only 4.5%. Cocaine? Americans use it 3 times more readily than their Netherlander counterparts. Heroin? America has it too, .3% of the population compared to their .1%. Are you beginning to question are drug laws? Now I don't support the way that they did legalize their drugs, it has caused one problem. But that's becuase their liberal idiots and don't do what needs to be done. Get the drug abusers off the streets and throw them in prison for a while.

What about this? In 1992 when Bill Clinton became president, one of his first moves to gain support was to broadly expand the war on drugs. During Clinton’s first 4 years in office, he spent more on battling drugs than Ronald Reagan and George H. Bush did in 12 years. And the results after tripling funding, what happened to drug use? From 1992 to 1999, marijuana use doubled among adults, and more than doubled among teenagers. Where else in government policy has tripling funding caused a negative impact.

So if it really is that simple, what would you rather have. The same number of drug users while spending tens of billions of dollars trying to force them to stop. Or pass laws were we can focus on keeping the innocent people safe, and let the idiots that want to poison themselves with brain killing chemicals have at it.

I would rather see 100 drug users overdose and kill themselves than see one innocent person die. I hope that's not too heartless. Maybe not.

Uhhhhh, so what was your point? That society is getting better, and the only reason most kids ever use drugs is SOLELY because the drugs are illegal.

Damn, why is it whenever conservative argue in favor of our current drug laws they use very stupid and "LIBERAL" arguements!

How in the world did you come up with "the only reason most kids ever use drugs is solely becuase the drugs are illegal"?

I SAID more children use the current illegal drugs, than if the current illegal drugs were legal. yeah it's a little complicated but I'm sure you can understand. You see I going futher and better defining what you think I said. Maybe you have closed your eyes so much to what we're saying when you read something, you take it for a completely different meaning?