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> Somewhere out in blogland or terri's sites is a note that in 1991, a handwritten by Schiavo on the rehab plan for Terri was made calling Terri PVS, prior to any medical or legal ruling of same. 1991.

If you find, PLEASE POST !! (If I'm not mistaken, by that year he may have either begun, or completed some medical training.)

> The reason the Schwindlers tried to get Michael removed as his wife's guardian was so they could get control of her money.

Your statement shows your abysmal level of knowledge about much of the legal history of Terri's tragic situation.

Some years back HINO offered to transfer Terri's malpractice award to the Schindlers, but in return they would have to consent to withdrawal of her G-tube and death. They refused.

More recently, in a last ditch attempt to save Terri's life, the Schindlers offered to HINO that he could keep all remaining monies in her rehabilitation account, any monies for future book, film and movie offers and rights, and also that they would not pursue any future legal actions concerning the years he prevented any rehabilitation therapy for Terri, if only he'd transfer guardianship control over Terri to either the parents or son Bobby. HINO refused the offer.

So who's the real money-grubbing character in this horrific tragedy? It ain't the Schindlers.

> It started over money and spite...in the end only the spite was left.

Yeah. All HINO's.

> The hair can disclose some heavy metal poisonings such as arsenic and strichnine which I don't think is applicable in Terri's case

I'm aware that the presence of heavy metals can be detected in hair. What confused me was the implied reference that heavy metals can be disclosed by DNA testing. It's been my understanding that it's a different kind of testing for heavy metals.

There's an undercurrent of concern that Terri was given sufficient morphine at the end to finish her off. Since her death was announced about 10 minutes after her siblings last saw her alive, I'm supposing a high level of morphine [IF PRESENT] would be detected with full toxological ME tests.

> A lock of her hair could possibly be used for DNA testing.

?? I have no medical background, but all I've ever heard about DNA testing is that it can demonstrate familial relationships, genetic weaknesses and/or diseases. Can DNA testing disclose other medical facts?

In any case, the ME required an autopsy which reportedly included full toxological testing, so Greer wasn't able to preclude all possible discovery.

> Would you like some court documents to read about this; I'll send you links if you'd like them.

I'd very much appreciate if you'd provide those links -- either by public posting or private message. Thanks.

> They can't. MRS and George W. Greer are protected against suits by FL law in connection with Terri's extermination.

At present they can't. But there are so many elements of a massive corrupt conspiracy swirling around at least the evil triumvir who culminated this tragic event. theempirejournal.com obtained Florida documents demonstrating legitimate reason to question JINO Greer's de jure judicial status. On 3/18/05, the very evening Terri's feeding tube was removed, HINO rambled on the Larry King Live program and made two statements which completely contradicted his court position that he knew what Terri's wishes were about "artificial" means to sustain lives. HINO's inadvertent admission proves that the many affidavits from independent sources attesting to HINO's lack of knowledge [of Terri's wishes] were truthful. If drawn together and assembled for a compelling legally coherent action, it might still be possible to reverse Greer's judgment and civil execution order. IMHO, Terri was murdered and there's no statute of limitations for murder. And if, in a court of law, it cannot be denied that Greer has been illegally occupying the circuit judgeship position, he would lose judicial immunity.

My personal conviction is what I've stated here can be achieved. At a minimum, research and being able to pore through at least a good portion of legal documentation is necessary, starting with all documentation from HINO's original filing back in 1998. Kind of difficult since I'm in California, but not impossible. At lot of the documentation, but unfortunately not all, is available somewhere on the internet. I'd very much welcome anyone's assistance locating documentation -- particularly from the very beginning to at least 2002.

More than vindication for Terri is at stake here. Unless Greer's rulings can, at whatever point in time, be shown to be foundationless and overturned, every American is at potential risk for the same sad ending as was forced on innocent, disabled and legally-helpless Terri.

> What a crock - she was dead 15 years ago.

And the evidence on which you're basing your position?

Is it from the few euthanasia-oriented doctors whose opinions JINO Greer preferred to believe in the decisional court hearing on that issue? I've read that was a 3-2 decision as to whether she was in the hard-to define and often misdiagnosed PVS condition. It most assuredly was not the position of at least 30 medical professionals who, post-judgment, voluntarily stepped forward to provide affidavits of medical facts in opposition. This much larger group of medical professionals felt sufficiently and profoundly concerned enough about what they believed was an inaccurate diagnosis. They urged first-time thorough testing to fully diagnose and know Terri's actual condition. But JINO Greer, HINO and Felos weren't about to permit derailment of their full-steam ahead effort to execute Terri, a disabled and legally-helpless woman. Both federal and Florida laws were violated to achieve this tragic result. This evil triumvir has never disclosed why they were so adamantly opposed to a complete battery of medical tests for Terri.

Yes, Terri was brain-damaged. It's been reported that not even HINO made the claim that she was brain-dead. One thing for sure, she was not dying before Greer's civil order of execution forced dehydration and starvation on her. That's what caused her death; not her brain-damaged condition. Had she been brain-dead, her body would have expired on it's own without Greer's order. PVS was the official position of Greer's ruling. I suggest you find and read Florida's definition of PVS. It's defined differently from brain-dead.

IMHO, you are free to take that position for yourself, but only for yourself. None of us have the moral right to impose such a final decision on another human. Stalin and the Communist party, Hitler and the Nazis, and countless other tyrannies throughout history held the same view. Since that's the position you've apparently chosen, your choice, but it's certainly not a distinguished group with which you're aligning yourself.

> A daring man, a man driven by the Holy Spirit, would have found some quasi-legal pretext,

Yeah, like any governor's power of pardon, which wouldn't have presented any real political risk for Jeb. That option wouldn't have broken any laws.
Jeb took an oath to uphold Florida's consitution, but by not pardoning and protecting Terri, Jeb actually violated his oath, Florida's constitution, and a number of Florida statutes as well.

> Then you have the judges. They have been fully infected with the disease of liberalism, which at its heart says, "We know what's best for you." That turns justice on its head and each case is no longer decided on law and facts, but by the need of each individual judge to feel powerful and important and to impress his peers.

Pretty well described -- and simply a recognition that we're no longer governed by consistent rules of law, but capricious and biased decisions from black-robed men.

> ... A legislative body, (in this case the FL Legislature), whose task it is to create laws did so, with a very vague "Clear and Convincing" clause in it. This clause was exploited, and Terri Schiavo fell victim to it.

And the history behind inclusion of this "vague 'Clear and Convincing'" legislative clause began after HINO's first suit to remove Terri's feeding tube was dismissed in 1998. In preparation for a 2nd attempt, Felos went to work in quiet collaboration with Sen. Jim King for this change. Then in 1999, HINO resumed his suit, and with Felos' trial lawyer expertise -- well, we all know the tragic result.

> Probate courts don't have jury trials; those are for civil cases.

Half right. Probate courts don't have jury trials, but are civil law proceedings.

> Certainly the laws need to be changed that in life and death cases, ...

Most definitely.

> ... not just one judge with an obvious agenda.

This JINO (judge in name only as proved by investigation done by theempirejournal.com) could still find himself in a heap more trouble than merely, possibly, finding himself being at least impeached by the Florida legislature. He orchestrated and ordered Terri's execution by his civil order. If sufficient facts are eventually revealed and a suit about Greer lacking authority for such an (extra-legal, illegal and unlawful) order should ever reach a court of law, it could finally, horrifically and inescapably, be recognized that Terri was murdered.

> And I think that any appellate court that wanted to could have found "reversible error" and ordered a re-trial. But again I'm thinking of a criminal case . . .

The legal principle of "reversible error" is applicable in both civil and criminal law. In fact, David Gibbs was informed by another (eagle-eyed) Florida attorney of a reversible error basis of a critical Greer ruling. But Greer, in his zeal to prevent Terri from escaping his execution order, dismissed the reversible error motion with the explanation that it wouldn't have had a significant bearing on his decision -- so his decision would still have been as he initially ruled.

One incredible piece of evidence, constituting fraud on the court, was provided by HINO himself during a repeat appearance on Larry King Live the night Terri's feeding tube was removed on 3/18. It could (and I believe should) have been jumped on immediately for a new legal action.
On national TV, with Felos physically at his client's side, HINO rambled in his comments to Larry King and made two statements that reversed his court testimony to Greer. Wish I could have been inside Felos' mind at that moment. At a mimimum, Felos probably felt at least disconcerted.
Unfortunately, this unexpected slip by HINO wasn't pursued legally and Terri is now dead.

As far as your comment in the next post, #11,

> I'd love to see Michael sue for libel. What a trial that would be! Never gonna happen.

HINO deserves to be sued for a much higher crime. No statute of limitations for murder. As long as he lives, that remains a charge he might someday have to face -- and possibly Felos and Greer as well. Quite an evil triumvir that bunch.

> ... I'm assuming the people starved had cognitive abilities and weren't PVS. Let's compare apples and oranges some more, shall we.

And the source for your belief that Terri lacked cognitive abilities and is/was PVS? From her testimony-challenged merciless "husband", who recently slipped up on the Larry King Live Program (3/18/05) and said "I don't know what Terri wanted. It's what we wanted.", with his attorney Felos sitting beside him? Or the testimony from right-to-die euthansia-oriented medical professionals like Dr. Cranford? He diagnosed Robert Wendland in California as PVS when Wendland was getting around on his own in a wheelchair and participating in activities with others; I think playing chess and free hand artdrawing.

Terri's parents had about 3 times as many affidavits as HINO and Felos. The affidavits favorable to Terri, affirming her alert, aware, cognitive (and evidence of strangulation) condition, came from many medical professionals, were often voluntarily provided because of compassion and concern about Terri's horrendous legal plight.

She was disabled, not dying before her intent-on-her-murder husband had the feeding tube tube removed and forced her remaining days to be without food or water. She's now started her 14th day. How do you think you'd be faring after 14 days without either food or water. You should think about that and hope to god neither you nor anyone else finds themself subject to a judge who decides their fate on the basis of flimsy hearsay from someone who stands to benefit in the several million dollar range (books, movie, TV rights) from your death.

Let's see. In post #30 ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1368563/posts?page=30#30 ) you stated: "I will be in Pinellas County next week. It is a gorgeous place with great people, exciting things to do, the best beaches and excellent restaurants.

"Your post is rude, arrogant and ignorant."

And in this post you've opined: "You sure are dictatorial about a country that you don't even live in."

Your #30 post shows how shallow you are -- more interested in a good time at the beach, dining and being "with great people" than concerned that a helpless disabled woman is about to be snuffed, in the first judicially recognized civil order of execution in the United States, because she's an inconvenience for an adulterous husband. I hope you never find yourself in a similar situation.

Here you're as snippy toward Canadian Outrage as JennysCool in #30.
Gee, what a concept, to be more interested in preventing a civil execution than going to the beach, etc. YOU SHALLOW TWIT. You obviously don't appreciate life, liberty and freedom of speech for anyone but yourself. There's a dangerous judicial precedent about to be imposed on all Americans. Everyone listed in post #48 is concerned and worried both about Terri and this act of extralegal judicial tyranny.

> So she is being killed by a judicial order. Judicial orders causing the death of a person are generally known as executions.

IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY TO INTERPRET OR VIEW GREER'S ORDER ?? !!

(Please don't think I'm ridiculing your comment. I'm entirely opposed to Greer's
civil execution order against Terri and have been saying so for quite some time.)

Gov. Bush has the power of pardon, WHICH IS NOT explicitly linked to a criminal situation. The power of pardon has hundreds of years of tradition behind it and is an action beyond the reach of either judiciaries or legislatures. Thus, Jeb Bush could, WITHOUT ANY DANGER OF ANY LEGAL VULNERABILITY, use the power available to any state chief executive officer in all 50 states.

Lastly, on March 18, 2005, HINO and Felos were interviewed on Larry King Live. During the interview, HINO inadvertendly stated the following: "We didn't know what Terri
wanted, but this is what we want... ". The transcript is at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/18/lkl.01.html

That slipup, combined with various affidavits already in existence, establishes at least reasonable doubt that fraud on the court was committed. More here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/1371063/posts?page=31#31

> possibly a different home for MS, the judge, freek Felos, Hospice Center (under FF's control) and others when the can of beans is fully opened.

There's quite of background activity being proposed, investigated and pursued to continue peeling back the layers of corruption that require Terri's execution for CYA purposes.

> CREMATION......getting rid of the evidence. The Florida mafia - the men in black - rule.

Felos announced today that HINO has consented and approved for the Pinellas County ME to perform an autopsy. I don't believe for a minute that HINO's consent was voluntary as indicated by this announcement. ME decisions to perform autopsies prior to burial or cremation are nearly totally autonomous and beyond judicial review when ordered for cases with suspicious circumstances. I hope the Schindlers will be able to have their own selected independent ME observe and participate in the autopsy.

> About 2 mos ago, I e-mailed the parents (from Terri's website) to see if they could get an emergency annulment from the Vatican since the Vatican is well aware of the situation. No doubt in my mind they did it all.

Good idea, but would not, unfortunately, be a civil dissolution to affect and change the guardianship issue before Greer. It would, however, certainly provide some measure of comfort for Terri's parents that her religious marital relationship to this lying POS were forever severed.
For nearly as long as you I've been suggesting that the Vatican bestow honorary citizenship on Terri and she could then have some measure of international citizenship and diplomatic protection to get her out of that Woodside Hospice hellhole where's she's been imprisoned for so long.

Last week the Iceland Parliament approved honorary citizenship for Bobby Fischer on humanitarian grounds (Washington Post reported in 3 separate articles:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61914-2005Mar24.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62070-2005Mar24.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62223-2005Mar24.html )

This morning, I called the Iceland Foreign Ministry (from San Francisco), but was told it's closed today since yesterday was Easter.
There are two Iceland consulates in Florida (Talahassee and Ft. Lauderdale) and, of course, the embassy in Washington, D.C. I was told by an Iceland consulate employee here in San Francisco that Terri's parents must be the ones to request honorary Iceland citizenship for her.
The relevent Iceland government information is at these two sites: http://www.mfa.is/ministry/
http://brunnur.stjr.is/interpro/utanr/HBvefur.nsf/Pages/IslSendiradEng?OpenDocument&CountryNr=1(USA)&Lang=44

Finally, on 3/1805, HINO appeared (again) on Larry King Live. Felos was there at his side. HINO made a crucial testimony slip which goes to the guts of his case about Terri's wishes. His statement was: "We didn't know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want... " at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/18/lkl.01.html
There's a Florida attorney commentary here: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/03/inside-story-on-schiavo-case.html on that point, which is the only legal basis that could overturn the original judgment, because Greer issued his ruling based on HINO's position of certainty that Terri did not want to be artificially sustained. For this interview, HINO has obviously reversed position. So, was he lying in court, or lying here? HINO lied somewhere. And since Felos was sitting there right by HINO, as an officer of the court, he's required under judicial canons and by his attorney oath to disassociate himself from untruthful situations, and most especially this case which presents a situation constituting fraud on the court. Not having done so, Felos is now a participant in a conspiracy.

At present, these two can rightfully be suspected to be attempted murder conspirators, or if (hopefully not when) Terri dies, murder conspirators.

> "There is no means by which we can get involved more than we've already done," the Florida governor said. "My guess is there is very little left for the government to do

How convenient that Jeb Bush has never mentioned either the pardon or clemency options. Both are time-honored and outside of the jurisdiction of both the courts and the legislature. No possibility of accusations and charges of violating a court order. Best that could happen would be a lot of teeth gnashing -- like happened after BJ Clinton issued his late term pardons.

C'MON GOV. BUSH. THE OPTIONS ARE THERE AND IF YOU'RE HEART IS BROKEN AS YOU'VE PUBLICLY CLAIMED, EXERCISE THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO ALL U.S. STATE CHIEF EXECUTIVES!! OTHERWISE, YOU'RE SHOWN YOURSELF TO BE IMPOTENT, AND HAVE DISGRACED YOURSELF. IT WILL BE YOUR LEGACY THAT COUNTY CIRCUIT JUDGE GREER DEPRIVED YOU OF CONTROL OVER THE FDLE WHICH REPORTS TO YOU, NOT THE COUNTY.

> Your vitriol is childish, rude and hurts fellow Americans.

I think civil execution orders achieved at the expense of breaking laws to be able to kill people whose wishes are not truly known -- decided on the basis of extremely questionable hearsay when more reliable hearsay is presented, and dismissed -- are a lot more rude and hurtful, but just my opinion.

As to your comment in #39, "I know what to do. I'm leaving all of this confusion, backstabbing and hate-mongering behind."

Bye, bye. Don't let the door hit you you know where.

> Please join me in a cheerful and complete boycott of Pinellas County, Florida.

My 40th HS reunion is approaching, for Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. I decided last week that I will not be attending as a matter of principle and also fear.

Tragically, Terri will die soon; maybe tonight or tomorrow. At that time I will mass e-mail a notice to my fellow graduates of my position, and include both Bush brothers as recipients.

> Obviously, an overdose of insulin will result in hypoglycemia. I like many here are suspicious,

I believe that sometime close to when Terri collapsed, Michael started working in the medical field. I'm guessing it would have been relatively easy for him to get hold of insulin.
I've heard, but have not checked out, that insulin can be obtained without a prescription. Do you know if that's true.

> however I also believe that insulin is used by some people who are weight conscious to eliminate the excess sugar in their system.

Within the last two days I've been able to listen to an interview of one of Terri's early childhood to adulthood friends who spent a lot of time with Terri and her family and often shared meals with them. She was asked specifically if she had seen any signs of Terri being weight conscious (bulimic) and without hesitation, she said no. In fact, she observed that Terri had a healthy appetite and at that time weighed about 115 lbs.