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Dredging up what the Mormons did before I was even born has no place in your straw man argument.

No, my point is proven. I'm saying Muslims in this respect are no different from the Mormons of 100 years ago.

You cannot change the fact that I can venture into Utah with absolute peace of mind.

My point is proven. People change. Mormons today no longer require blood attonement if someone leaves their religion. Perhaps in a 100 years (or less) Muslims may also not require blood attonement for leaving their religion.

What you also cannot change is the fact that Christians choose extreme danger should they live in any Muslim country today.

Of course, Christians are still being martyred today. And if you look at the map provided by VOM, many of those are in countries with Muslim majorities (and the rest are in Communist China, Korea).

You. Have. No. Argument.

You. Owe. Me. Ten. Bucks. Because. I. Provided. A. Body. Count. For. Blood. Attonement. Please. Pay. Up.

Hey professor Islam,

Give me a precise body count from BLOOD ATONEMENT, and then respond with your comparison reference the current threat of Mormons vs. Muslims.

Ten bucks says that your straw man can't go the distance with me reference Islam's senseless deaths.

Hey whiney, liberal snit,

Here's a precise body count for you. How about 120 innocent men and women murdered (and their children kidnapped and raised as Mormons).

It actually happened. "On the 10th day of September, 1857, was consummated one of the most cruel, cowardly and bloody murders known in our history." ... Yep, the body count is no where near the tens of thousands of senseless deaths we can attribute to Islamists in the past decades -- but 120 people murdered is 120 people too many.

So, my straw man did go the distance. And you owe me ten bucks.

"Can someone post a contrary opinion?" Use the search feature. We have posted many contrary opinions.

OK, I used the search feature on Jasser and the result was: "Nothing matched your criteria.".

What search terms should I use to prove that "M. Zuhdi Jasser" is not speaking the truth?

M. Zuhdi Jasser is reviled by many of his fellow Muslims.

He's constantly called a 'dog' by many muslims.

Which is one of the reasons why I think that he's speaking the truth.

Can a Muslim separate church and state?

Tell me, how many Islamic nations allow the systematic execution of Muslims-turned-Christians?

Islam is death and destruction, and it is nothing more.

Emmet Fitzhume, Please read the above article. M. Zuhdi Jasser in no way approved of the execution of Muslims-turned-Christians -- Jasser quoted a Koran verse ("Let there be no compulsion in matters of faith" (2:256).) that contradicted the Islamists.

M. Zuhdi Jasser hails from Arizona, however, consider the state just due north of Arizona in the United States. It's called Utah. And just a few short years ago people in that area had a concept of BLOOD ATONEMENT which allowed Mormons to murder anyone who left the Mormon Church. How much different is that from the clerics in Afghanistan calling for the murder of Christians who converted from Islam?

Today, Mormons are considered fine, upstanding members of society. Their bloody past is glossed over by history books and the MSM. No one talks about it.

"M. Zuhdi Jasser is a Muslim commentator I have admired for several years."

Why? In all fairness, it is 1:30 a.m. where I am and I'm going to bed. But go for it. Explain why you think so much of him.

Because everything I've read by M. Zuhdi Jasser has always been straightforward and honest. I'm convinced that he's a good man and he speaks the truth.

Can someone post a contrary opinion?

M. Zuhdi Jasser is a Muslim commentator I have admired for several years.

If he is promulgating Al-Taqiyah then please, let us discuss it here.

'Virtual' Jehadi ping: (let me know if you want on or off)

Convincing jihadists of alternative values would be a long process, he admits. But "I have seen groups of mujahedeens" transformed from fighters to community helpers. If that conversion works in physical space, he says, "I do not see any reasons why we cannot do that in cyberspace."

Perhaps if we could just get all the jehadis into a small room -- get them to sit down, and hold hands, and learn the words to Kumbaya, it just might happen.

More about anshar.net from the archives of Internet Haganah.

Jehadi website ping: (let me know if you want on or off)

Many prisoners in Indonesian jails have mobile phones, a fact that has led to calls for a crackdown on the practice.

The Indonesian authorities need to take away their laptops and internet access too.

Thank you for the information...I presume the jihadis know this as well? (I know they probably don't read FR, but...maybe we should pull the thread then?...:)

Not to worry -- the Jehadis have been studying and watching us and FR for years. One more post won't hurt.

I have a Yahoo group: [Terror_Web]. Membership is by my approval only -- however, I'm very loose and will approve most everyone who applies. You and everyone else who reads this post are welcome to join.  I have even approved a few real Islamists/terrorists. Ismail Royer was once a member, and I debated him via email before he was arrested.  I have banned only a few people who were really abusive (they tried to send trojans out to the group). 

I disagree with MEMRI on one point. The www.alhesbah.org site is hosted in Texas, not Arizona.

Use http://www.whois.sc/alhesbah.org and note that the

IP Address:

209.120.238.197

traces to SpeedHost in Frisco, Texas.  Here's the SpeedHost TOS:

We want SpeedHost.Com to be the most decent system out there, but we can only do it if you behave well. Any conduct deemed innapropriate by SpeedHost.Com personnel will be punishable at the employees criteria. All the accounts are continuously verified for good content and appropriate use. You will initially receive a warning, and if the conduct continues, you will be expelled from the system with no refunds.

Should be easy to convince the admins at SpeedHost that "fireing missiles via computer at a U.S. army base in Iraq" is 'innapropriate conduct'.  Also point out to the SpeedHost admins that a reverse IP of: 209.120.238.197 reveals 8 more websites which are probably put up by the same terrorist customer and that the site has been in operation at least since April 2004.    (You'll need Whois.SC 'Silver Access' at $15/mo. to view the reverse IP).  The SpeedHost admins should check all the sites put up by that customer.

The BetterWhois gives the domain owner -- which is protected by proxy.  Ne'r-do-well's such as child pornographers, spammers and terrorists often use proxies to protect their identities.  Someone would need a court order to get Domains by Proxy, Inc. to reveal who the owner of the domain is.  Someone in the U.S. Military should do just that.

"Now, now, you're venturing into some very murky and dark waters."

Those 'waters' have been my swimming hole for the past four years. Here's a post of mine where I first found out about Governmental 'entities' keeping al-Qaeda on-line:

http://uk.geocities.com/johnathanrgalt/Letter_To_ISP_of_Azzam_com.html

http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/706607/posts

strategofr:

"It is a question for the United States Congress to ask, as to how many "counter-terrorism investigations" being conducted involve Jihadist websites, and what do the agencies involved have to show for their efforts to keep such sites online?"

The US anti-terror effort has accomplished much. Much of it is detailed to Congress, as you suggest. It is not passed on to the general public for obvious reasons.

Your posting makes no sense.

It's your posting that makes no sense. You've selectively removed the sentences before and after -- and twisted out of context what Aaron at Internet-Haganah actually said. Here's the full paragraph again, in context:

Aaron at Internet-Haganah :

Surveillance, or monitoring - such as it is conducted by the US today - is not generally done in a manner that can make effective use of what intelligence can be gathered. Many "investigations" of Islamist websites - involving keeping those sites online - appear to be investigations in name only. It is a question for the United States Congress to ask, as to how many "counter-terrorism investigations" being conducted involve Jihadist websites, and what do the agencies involved have to show for their efforts to keep such sites online? Particularly as compared to the growing pile of dead bodies that stands in mute judgement over the conduct of the "war on terror".

Jehadi website ping: (let me know if you want on or off)

Aaron at Internet-Haganah responds:

You all have to admit -- increased Islamist terrorism is in the vested interest of the "intelligence" agencies. The more terrorism incidents, the more funding congress will approve to the agencies that just sit on their hands and "monitor" will get. Congress has already given them billions to do nothing -- how many more billions will Congress give them if they do nothimg more and thousands of more Americans die?

The old saw about "keeping your friends close and your enimies closer" makes good business sense. Keeping al-Qaeda sites on-line makes for increased job security for everyone from high-paid "intelligence" analysts to airport shoe screeners. It's a win-win situation for all of the TLA's (Three Letter Acronym) agencies. They'd all like to preserve their own jobs at the expense of American lives. .

Jehadi website ping: (let me know if you want on or off)

Al-Qaeda's Online "University" for Jihad is located in San Jose, Calif.

AstilbeRevealer gives this address as the physical location of: http://www.al-farouq.com/vb/   Clueless U.S. 'Intelligence Experts' vow to sit on their hands and 'monitor' the site -- while the site trains more mass-murdering jehadis world-wide.

Whois Information from "whois.arin.net" about 208.185.83.164

OrgName:    Abovenet Communications, Inc
Address:    150 S. 1st Street, Ste 289
City:       San Jose
StateProv:  CA
PostalCode: 95113
Country:    USA
OrgAbuseName:   AboveNet Abuse
OrgAbusePhone:  +1-888-636-2778
OrgAbuseEmail:  abuse@above.net

In other news, the House just approved $30.8 Billion more for clueless U.S. 'Intelligence Experts' so they can keep us safe from the Jehadis being trained at the online "University" in San Jose, Calif.