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I have just been informed that Ltc. West is black. All of your previous remarks are based on race, not logic. You sonofabitch. I would certainly shoot you myself! And the JAG officer from Georgia, too. You hypocrit.

UNODIR

All combat infantry officers know what Unless Otherwise Directed means....You send a message back to your commander telling him the situation has changed and you are taking the initiative to redirect you assigned mission and going against standing orders. It's called CYA. Understand, Grunt? I doubt it....

Call in the MI interrogators? How pathetic!

You are in combat...lets take lunch break and get the Military Intelligence (oxymoron) types to do the Geneva Convention approved questioning, it doesn't matter if they get ambushed on their way over....wake up, Jarhead, smell the coffee! What the hell did they teach you in the Corps?
So far I would charge you with cowardess in the face of the enemy! Firing squad for you, boy. You have none of the answers to the leadership test and you wouldn't make a pimple on West's butt. Gutless is what you are, so did they drum you out, or what?

Your attitude toward ANY command authority makes you a prime candidate for a body bag. Standing on the edge of a black hole has been calculated to exert 100,000 megatons in a nanosecond; return to plasma. How would you feel obliterating men, women and children by nuclear detonation?
But we digress, the topic is leadership and Ltc. West. What would you have done to extract the information gained by West? C'mon, Jarhead, what are your actions and orders?
Semper Fi.

That's a nice picture of a nuclear detonation you posted. Do you possess the courage to set one off? Don't hide behind "lawful orders"; do you have the courage? How would you verify the "order" was legit? How much time would you take before pushing the button? You are not a leader, just a follower....

"What is the point of your post?"

Integrity, honesty and responsibility of command. Rules and orders not to beat prisoners is pretty much understood by those, including the ones who accepted article 15's for beating the prisoner in question, the spy. Without disciplinary action by West against those who beat the prisoner, West could be considered to condone the action, and in meeting out the non-judicial punishment, West prevented double jeopardy against his men. I don't see this as a double standard. I see it as command standards. West himself should have been offered an Article 15, but wasn't. He was offered resignation and the hell with 19 years and 51 weeks of service. What would you have done? It goes back to moral courage and the responsibility of command. Officers carry side arms to enforce their command. If a member of a unit in combat refuses a "lawful" order, he can be shot, on the spot. Of course the officer can also be "fragged". But I don't want to split hairs with you. West had the responsibility of command and he exercised it with what was available at the time. He did not beat the prisoner. He got his attention to the heartfelt thanks of those who were forewarned of certain death.

But, now that I am aware of the Feres Doctrine, I am positive I would never have entered the service or undertaken all that I did. A person should not have to swear to protect the Constitution of The United States and at the same time forfeit Rights under the First Amendment.

When we acquired the soldier, we did not abandon the citizen.

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
http://www.verpa.org
jmac1369@earthlink.net
Web Log: http://www.jenmartinez.com/vetsturn/

Re "lawful orders"; the operative word here being "lawful".
The integrity of the system is only as true and coherent as those commanding a given action.

If a nuclear device is activated in Iraq, will it be us or them who did it? How will we ever know? Whose decision will it have been? Whose integrity will be questioned then? If a suicide terrorist is the culprit, how would we ever know? If it is one of our suitcase devices, who will have ordered it's activation? Do we even have nukes in Iraq? We had them in Nam. They were stored in Long Binh and nearly compromised during the Tet Offensive January 30, 1968. A First Lieutenant was the Nuclear Weapons Control Officer. What would the rank be for the same officer in Iraq? 03? 04? If LTC West was the man in charge of the Special Atomic Demolitions Munitions (SADM) would he have activated one if ordered to do so? Would that be a "lawful" order. How would we ever know? The "blame game" would certainly be activated.
John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
http://www.verpa.org
Web Log: http://www.jenmartinez.com/vetsturn/
jmac1369@earthlink.net
Background: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html
http://www.geocities.com/larryjodaniel/23.html

We must keep this in context re "enemies within our ranks". It is a subject not discussed in most circles. During Special Operations in Vietnam, radio messages being sent from South Vietnam to North Vietnam were intercepted by our National Security Agency, deciphered and shockingly, contained the grid coordinates of the landing sites for our Studies and Observation Group (MACVSOG) "hatchet" teams into Laos, Cambodia and North Vietnam. It is no wonder that we suffered so many casualties during these operations. It follows that most, if not all, of our "secret" operations were penetrated by the opposition. Ted Shackley, CIA Station Chief from 1968-72, claimed to have an agent in the Viet Cong infrastructure, COSVIN, was code named "hackle", and was touted as the only successful penetration of that organization. Perhaps it was ego, but if you put a "S" in front of Hackle and a "Y" on the end, you get "Shackley".
Treason in War is so diabolical. Many things that go wrong in war can be attributed to espionage and sabotage. It is no different in the current war in Iraq. Take for instance the current legal action against LTC West. Who is pushing this? Is there not more harm being done than creating "good order and discipline". The opposition must be jumping with glee over this abortion.
John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
http://www.verpa.org
Web Log: http://www.jenmartinez.com/vetsturn/
Background: http://www.geocities.com/larryjodaniel/23.html

FALLING ON ONES SWORD or not: A lesson in moral courage.

Having been charged with article 118 (capital murder, premeditated, sentence; Death or Life ONLY) and then offered a "deal" for pleading guilty to manslaughter (maximum sentence ten years confinement at hard labor dishonorable discharge, reduction in rank and forfeiture of all pay and allowances) and refusing this offer and refusing to make a statement, the powers that be decided on a trial by General Court-martial. Little did I know that it made no difference of my innocence to the charge.
My God, man, this is the United States Army. They would not fabricate evidence in order to obtain an unjust conviction for a crime not committed! Hold on there. The charge sheet does not say the Untied States Army vs Captain John McCarthy, it reads "The United States"! Now that's a pretty big outfit! Listen up Ltc. West!

The president of the court-martial board told me sixteen years later, in 1984, that if the Army thought me innocent of the crime, they would never have charged me in the first place, and he, as an officer of the court had his duty to convict, damn the evidence. What blew his mind was the recantation of the government's "expert" witness. The Verdict had been Guilty. Deliberation on sentencing lasted less than three minutes. Sentence: "To be confined at hard labor for the term of your natural life". No discharge, no forfeiture of pay and allowances and no reduction in rank. I drew full pay and allowances for 686 days in the military's penitentiary in Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas, equal distance to every border.

What's necessary here, Ltc West, is all the publicity you can muster and the finest CIVILIAN defense attorney available. The latter being the priority. DO IT NOW!

For the details, see:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html
http://www.geocities.com/larryjodaniel/23.html

This matter is so serious, it is difficult to put to words.
The deck is stacked. No matter the circumstance, once the wheels of justice are engaged re the UCMJ, they might just as well say, "Bring the guilty bastard in". DO NOT LET THIS MATTER PROCEED TO TRIAL!

My prayers to you and your family.

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
www.verpa.org

I would be honored to be pinged by you.

Semper Fi! Danger is no stranger to the Airborne Ranger.

Somewhere in the Chain of Command, someone is going to have to muster the moral courage to disengage the formality of the legal issues facing Ltc. West. Whom ever that person is, may God Bless him or her.

Lets not add Ltc. West to the casualties of this thankless war. Let us rally around this warrior, not prosecute him! VERPA is soon to be before the Senate Judiciary Committee presenting abuses shielded by the FERES Doctrine since 1950. Let us not add Ltc. West to these egregious cases.

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
www.verpa.org
Web Log: www.jenmartinez.com/vetsturn/
Background: www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html
www.geocities.com/larryjodaniel/23.html

Thank you.

I have emailed Ltc West, his wife Angela and his attorney, Mr. Puckett. I provided the URL's from my first post on this message board in hopes that the information will assist in a meaningful way with respect to the tough decisions facing them soon.

The UCMJ is draconian at best.

And the United States Disciplinary Barracks (USDB) is no barracks; it is a penitentiary in every sense of the word.
Once those steel doors clang shut and the locks are thrown, the only sound that penetrates is the whistle of a train off in the darkness as it runs along the Missouri River bank.

Regards,

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
www.verpa.org
Web Log: www.jenmartinez.com/vetsturn/
Background: www.geocities.com/larryjodaniel/23.html
www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html
jmac1369@earthlink.net

Thank you, Dolly.

If I were going to rate the officer who referred LTC West for charges under the UCMJ, I would do it thusly:

"This officer constantly fails to meet the low standards he sets for himself".

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
www.verpa.org
Web Log: www.jenmartinez.com/vetsturn/
Background: www.geocities.com/larryjodaniel/23.html
www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html
jmac1369@earthlink.net

This is how the UCMJ REALLY works, boys.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html

http://www.geocities.com/larryjodaniel/23.html

http://www.jenmartinez.com/vetsturn

Regards,

John McCarthy
Chairman of The Board of VERPA
www.verpa.org
jmac1369@earthlink.net