Posted on 09/23/2003 7:50:20 AM PDT by presidio9
No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.
Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.
According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.
The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.
If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.
According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."
The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.
Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.
Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.
The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."
Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.
Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.
The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.
The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.
It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.
Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.
"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.
I had hoped that, too, but it hasn't worked out that way. Church made me feel worthless as a woman. I can't put it into words adequately.
A woman threatened me with those crossed candles on St. Blaise Day. It started a terrible conflict in me; i.e., rules and tradition versus fairness and equality. I didn't like that woman doing the candles thing but I equally don't like my attitude that a women isn't good or worthy enough to do it.
I sympathize but I have also seen the opposite happen in many places. Many people in my experience know all about Catholism and nothing about christianity from their church "education".
I mean, people, read the actual primary source when it's published, and lets talk about that. (Of course, anything good it says will be ignored by the American church anyway, but ...)
Many people are woking diligently within the church to eliminate much of the "novelty" that has entered the church. You may find great worth in reading this document. It helped me to fend off liturgical dance in my parish. You can and should challenge your pastor, bishop and the USCCB any time you know that abuse is present.
the Church I grew up in is gone
No, it's still there. If you prefer to attend the Latin Mass, you should check with your diocesan office to learn where the Indult Latin Rite mass is said. Or, check here:
Yea...and Im not thinking about a debate. haha.
The visuals for that are very interesting!
I spent 45 years as an Anglican in an "high episcopal church" and ended switching to RC because of the female priest issue and the lack of respect for the traditional service now apparent to one and all. My husband and I will never forget the worshipful dance performed during a service by a "liturgical dancer". She must have been 45 years old and she wore a leotard and matching skirt of tight electric blue spandex. She dance up and down the aisles of the Catherral with her protruding nipples bouncing up and down. I thought I would not get out of there without laughing and breaking down into fits of giggles.
I like the traditional book of common prayer and a more sedate RC mass. I can't make the rules at my parish so we just "go with the flow".
It still beats the abortion taking place in the episcopal churches!!!
Why not? Maybe you could wear gloves and dresses again too, so that the appearance of going to our most important meeting of the day or week - to meet and receive the Lord Jesus - is outwardly shown.
The hair of a woman is given to her as her glory. Any woman knows that her long hair is one of her most remarkable and attractive features.
"But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering." (1 Cor. 11.15).
But in Church, we are there to glorify God, not to show off ourselves, as so many seem to think today. So women should veil their head in Church, as a part of their overall modest attire that St. Paul lays out elsewhere:
"In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire: But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works." (1 Timothy 2.9-10)
Dressing up and showing off feminine beauty and glory is fine OUTSIDE of Church, not within, when all the glory is God's.
Its funny that Catholic women will abide the rule of veiling and modest dress for meeting the Pope, but not for meeting Christ in the Eucharist.
I'm going to ping several other Catholic women on this for their remarks.
Why is it everyone is so eager to put me down because I don't think exactly like the rest of you, but no one, not one, is willing to admit that some of what I say is true?
I am the product of a patriarchal family where things worked like they do in yours. I am the product of a patriarchal family with a father who finally realized that maybe it wasn't fair to expect the women to have to wait on the men like servants and why his beloved sister chose to walk a difficult way rather than kowtow to demanding, unappreciative men. I wish the churchman would acquire the wisdom given to my father. It wasn't like he sought to change anything other than his attitude. That's all I'm asking for. A change in attitude. Not in the way things are done.
That is not to minimize important differences.
The history of the Baptist Church in the United States, even at times of greatest distrust between Baptists and Catholics, has never suggested a desire of Baptists to control us Catholics. Rather, your church has been a pillar of religious liberty, as I understand it. Today, your church stands consistently and courageously for that which is moral in the public square in humble obedience to our Lord and Savior.
Catholics need to recognize and respect the Godliness of your church, whaever our differences as to worship or belief. We agree on MANY MORE POINTS than those upon which we disagree.
God bless you and yours.
See, there you are, locked into roles again. Why shouldn't she mirror some of the things I come to her with with some of her own experiences?
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