Questions about "returning" to Catholicism (Input requested)

August 6, 2003 | self

[visualops]

A brief history to put my questions in context. My parents are Catholic, I was baptized Catholic. In my mid-20's I met and married a Greek Orthodox man. In the process, I converted to Greek Orthodox(old calendar), so we could have a religious wedding (otherwise there would have been no wedding believe me). Anyway fast-forward 10 years later and we got divorced. He obtained a religious divorce as well so he could remarry, which he eventually did. I have also since remarried (a non-Catholic in a civil ceremony only). Now what I'm wanting to know is where I now stand in regards the Catholic Church. Obviouslly I realize going to the local diocese etc etc may/will be in order. I tried googling around but didn't find anything pertaining to my particular situation. I feel as if I don't formally belong anywhere at the moment, and that bothers me on many levels.

[visualops]

I assumed the 'religious divorce' he got applied to both of us.
I do know the Greek Orthodox is a catholic church. Also, he had been married briefly before, and I remember seeing the church divorce papers then and it referred to both of them and the marriage IIRC.
I will tell you I'm not by any stretch of the imagination going to contact anyone in the Orthodox church I went to, or my ex or his family. My ex abandoned his children (we had 2) after the divorce and his family dumped us too. I only contact him when absolutely necessary regarding child support.
Thanks for the input though.

[visualops]

"hanging around with schismatics"
lol

What I said was I converted, this was before we married. It was a long process and I had confession, was rebaptized and then was able to take communion(in the Orthodox church) after that. This church is/was very old-fashioned and strict (and I later discovered full of selfish bigots and hypocrites). At the time I considered the conversion a formality, as in my mind and from the reading I did, these are churches (Orthodox and Roman Catholic)that are very similar, and of course were at one time the same church.

My current husband and I have a wonderful marriage. We got married in our house with my kids there. I believe God sees your heart and that's what counts. I think He knows we finally got it right this time. I am not going to ask my husband to convert, and he has said he won't. I don't have a problem with that.
I just want to go to church once in a while and I was curious what my situation was.

Thanks for your help :)

[old and tired]

My sister married a Russian Orthodox man in the early 1970's. They were married in a Russian Orthodox ceremony because his Church would not recognize it as valid, but the RC church would.

My mother was distraught when she found out that one of her own would not be marrying in a Catholic ceremony. I remember consoling my mother with a couple of paragraphs from a book containing documents from Vatican II. There is some specific provision for marriages in Orthodox churches. I've been looking all over for that book, but as yet I haven't found it.

I called my sister and she doesn't remember getting a dispensation, but she is unsure. In any event her husband converted to Catholicism after his mother died.

In any event, all this may be irrelevant as visualops underwent a formal conversion.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

if you really intended to be married you would have married in the Church. In other words, the paperwork is all the proof they need

ROFLOL.This is crazy. She didn't INTEND to be married? LOL. 10 yrs. but she never intended to be married. This is hilarious.

Becky

[Maximilian]

This church is/was very old-fashioned and strict (and I later discovered full of selfish bigots and hypocrites). At the time I considered the conversion a formality,

Anyone see the episode of Seinfeld where George is going to convert to Latvian Orthodox because he likes some girl?

[visualops]

I certainly did intend to be married, for the rest of my life. I take that commitment very seriously. He was verbally and mentally abusive in addition to monumentally stupid and self-destructive (taking us down with him). I would have put up with just about anything if I felt the kids would be fine. When I saw that wasn't the case then I went for divorce.
I'm happy to say my second marriage is the opposite and we fully intend to grow old and decrepit and fade into the sunset together. (BTW hubby #2 is an occasional FReeper too so he gets some extra points there too lol)



(Love your nickname! PayNoAttention)

[visualops]

Hmm I don't recall that one, not too many I haven't seen. I bet it was funny though! lol

[Saint Athanasius]

I am so sorry about your previous family..

Life sometimes will knock you flat with no apparent reason...

Hopefully, friends and love ones will ease the burden.

[Salvation]

But she has remarried, even though civil, and even though not valid. I don't believe she can receive Communion until an annulment for the first marriage takes place. Then she can take steps to have the second marriage blessed. Then she could receive the sacraments.

Or am I all wrong here.

[Salvation]

You definitely need to talk to a parish priest or deacon who can steer you through the process of an annulment for your first marriage.

Then other steps will be explained since you have remarried.

[Salvation]

**Yes, a confession would require that she remedy the current invalid marriage. But a priest might help her in that forum.**

OK, you clarified yourself here.

[Salvation]

Very good answerr.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I realize you intended to stay married, I was not laughing at you or your situation. Just the way some of the catholics here were finding loop holes in the catholic doctrine. It struck me funny in a sad sad way.

Have you ever attended/studied any religions besides catholic?

Becky

[american colleen]

She didn't INTEND to be married? LOL. 10 yrs. but she never intended to be married. This is hilarious.

Intention (intent) is recognizing the marriage as a covenant and a sacrament in the eyes of God. Some may marry and not understand or believe this Catholic teaching.

[TheStickman]

As hubby #2 (yep I'm the one, for real) I can vouch for everything visualops has said. I'm all for her *making things right* with the Catholic Church as I understand things. My own faith is such that it won't be shaken if/when we start going to a Catholic church now and then. I've always been a student of religions and the cultures any church has within it and this will be interesting to me from that stand point.

I just wish I didn't look so much older than her already...cuz she's actually older than ME!!!!

However, the 1st time a priest suggests to us that we have to *abstain* from making love I am gonna laugh out loud and prolly not be very *understanding* towards them. For me it's not a question of *loving my wife enough* to set *sex* aside. In my mind, we have yet to have sex. We do, however, make love often and I feel reborn as her husband each and everytime we do.

All that aside, thanks much to those who've offered their advice and suggestions to my wife. God continues to Bless us in all things and I am forever at a loss to express my thankfulness for our life and our marriage together. I better quit before I get *mushy*:)

[SoothingDave]

Anyone see the episode of Seinfeld where George is going to convert to Latvian Orthodox because he likes some girl?

He's asked what aspect fo the faith he likes the most and he replies "the hats."

SD

[Flying Circus]

However, I find it incredible to expect or ask a wife or husband to abstain from one of the greatest gifts God has given us in order to *return* to a church, regardless of denomination.

Might I suggest you contemplate the following from St. Paul:
1Cor.7 [5] Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Scripturally she is well justified to ask her husband to help her in her return to the faith. If he is willing to help, together with prayer and fasting, the abstainance can be a tool to help them both grow spritually. This is especially true if it gives them time to regularize their marrage within the church so she can recieve the sacrements again.

[TheStickman]

Making love together as a legally married couple is hardly an instance of *defrauding* one another. As one side of couple who comes together happily to become *one flesh* for over 7 years now, I respectfully suggest *abstaining* will in no way improve our marriage spiritually or emotionally and will in no way bring us closer to God as I understand Him.

Ya gotta remember. I am not a Catholic. I am a devoted husband who relishes all the Blessings God has bestowed upon our marriage. Our marriage *ain't broke* and *abstaining* from making love as a happily married couple fixes nothing, IMO.

[Flying Circus]

Try reading more carefully and look up the whole in context to understand better and think about it.

The defrauding is to deny each other sex. In other words, don't deny each other except by mutual agreement. In those times when both agree to abstain, the act of abstinence combined with prayer and fasting can help spiritual development. Abstinence, when offered to God, is not an implication that the marriage is broken, but actually is very healthy.

Now if I may suggest, as you are the husband in question, you should think of your wife's spiritual needs more than your own desires for sexual satisfaction. You may not be Catholic, but she is and wants to return to the Church. Part of her preparation to do so may require you to make an act of self-sacrifice. To put it in perspective, Christ sufferend and died on the cross out of love for His bride (the Church) and you may be asked to go without sex for a few weeks for yours. Don't you think you are strong enough to handle that?

[visualops]

Thank you.
Thanks to my hubby (the new one lol) both of the kids are doing very well and myself, too.

I truly believe we were destined to be together, and "heal" each other, so-to-speak.

Regarding previous marriages and annulments etc- my thoughts are/were, if the Catholic Church recognized my first marriage, they would also recognize the religious divorce that was granted (or at least taking care of that would probably be just formalities). And, if they didn't recognize it, then there was no marriage to annul. Either way, marriage #1 is irrelevant.
What is relevant is the conversion to Orthodox, and of course my current civil marriage.
I don't see anything changing regarding my current marriage, so that leaves the conversion.
I will look up the nearby Catholic church and see about going and talking to the priest. I figured that was really the only way to approach it.
Everyone has been really nice and helpful, and I appreciate it.
Thanks!