Joseph Smith's Consent Needed to Enter Heaven (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91)

Brigham Young Sermon:
Joseph Smith's Consent Needed to Enter Heaven
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91)

Brigham Young, October 9, 1859
Intelligence, Etc.
Remarks by President BRIGHAM YOUNG,
delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.
Reported by G. D. Watt
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91

I shall address you this morning upon a subject that is more interesting to me than any other pertaining to the life of man. It is a subject of deep study and research, and has been from age to age among the reflecting and philosophical portions of the human family. The intelligence given to the children of men is the subject to which I allude, and upon which has been expended more intellectual labour and profound thought than upon any other that has ever attracted the attention of man.

The Psalmist has written, "What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour." This passage is but one of many which refer to the organization of man as though it were a great mystery—something that could not be fully comprehended by the greatest minds while dwelling in earthly tabernaeles. It is a matter of vital interest to each of us, and yet it is often farthest from the thoughts of the greater portion of mankind. Instead of reflecting upon and searching for hidden things of the greatest value to them, they rather wish to learn how to secure their way through this world as easily and as comfortably as possible. The reflections what they are here for, who produced them, and where they are from, far too seldom enter their minds.

Many have written upon this great; subject, and there exists a great variety of reflections, views, and opinions which I have not time to dwell upon in detail. I will merely give you a few texts, or what you may term a text-book. Nor shall I now take time to minutely elaborate any particular point, but will present such views as shall come into my mind, trusting that I shall have your faith and prayers to be able to edify both Saint and sinner, believer and unbeliever.

If the inhabitants of the earth throughly understood their own being, their views, feelings, faith, and affections would be very different from what they now are. Many believe in predestination, while others of the Christian world oppose that doctrine and exclusively advocate free grace, free will, free offering, etc.; and each party of Christians has its pet theory or doctrine, upon which it builds its hopes of eternal salvation. Such a course is like five or six hundred men each selecting and running off with a piece of the machinery of a cotton mill, and declaring that he had the cotton mill entire. This comparison may be truly applied to the Christian. world as it now is with regard to the holy and divine principles which have been revealed pertaining to eternal life and salvation.

Many of you, no doubt, have concluded that the doctrine of election and reprobation is true, and you do so with propriety, for it is true; it is a scriptural, doctrine. Others do not believe this doctrine, affirming with all their faith, might, and skill that free grace and freewill are or ought to be the foundation of man's faith in his Creator. Very well. I can also say to them that free grace and freewill are scripturally true. The first-named doctrine is as true as the second, and the second as the first. Others, again, declare that mankind have no will, neither free nor restrained, in their actions; for instance, the Rationalists or Freethinkers, who deny the existence and divinity of the Gods that we believe in. But so far from their believing their own theory, Mr. Neil, of Boston, while in prison for having no religion, wrote an essay, in which he declared that "All is God."

I might enumerate many more instances, and say that they are all right so far as they go in truth. The doctrine of freewill and conditional salvation, the doctrine of free grace and unconditional salvation, the doctrine of foreordination and reprobation, and many more that I have not time enumerate, can all be fully and satisfactorily proved by the Scriptures, and are true.

On the other hand, many untrue doctrines are taught and believed such as there being infants, not a span long, weltering in the flames of hell, there to remain throughout the countless ages of eternity, and the doctrine of total depravity. Some have gone so far as to say that a man or woman who wishes to be saved in the kingdom of God—who wishes to be a servant or handmaid of the Almighty, must feel that deep contrition of heart, that sound repentance, and such a sense of his or her unworthiness and nothingness, and of the supremacy; glory, and exaltation of that Deity they believe in, as to exclaim before God and their brethren and sisters that they are willing to be damned. To me that is one of the heights of nonsense; for if a person is willing to be damned, he cares not to make the efforts necessary to secure salvation. All this confusion is in the world—party against party—communities against communities—individuals against individuals. One sets out with five truths and fifteen errors, making the articles of his faith twenty; another dissents from him, rejects those five truths, selects perhaps five more, and adds as many errors as did the former one, and then he comes out a flaming reformer. Men, in dissenting from one another, have too often exercised no better judgment than to deny and dissent from many truths because their ancestors cherished and believed them, which has produced numerous parties, sects, and articles of faith, when, in fact, taking them in mass, they have an immense amount of true principles.

It was the occupation of Jesus Christ and his Apostles to propagate the Gospel of salvation and the principles of eternal life to the world, and it is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their elder brother, being at their head,) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, to mechanism of every kind, to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every

The people upon this earth have a great many errors, and they have also a great many truths. This statement is not only true of the nations termed civilized—those. who profess to worship the true God, but is equally applicable to pagans of all countries, for in their religious rights and ceremonies may be found a great many truths which we will also gather home to Zion. All truth is for the salvation of the children of men—for their benefit and learning—for their furtherance in the principles of divine knowledge; and divine knowledge is any matter of fact—truth; and all truth pertains to divinity.

When we view mankind collectively, or as nations, communities, neighbourhoods, and families, we are led to inquire into the object of our being here and situated as we find ourselves to be. Did we produce ourselves, and endow ourselves with that knowledge and intelligence we now possess? All are ready to acknowledge that we had nothing to do with the origin of our being—that we were produced by a superior Power, without either the knowledge or the exercise of the agency we now possess. We know that we are here. We know that we live, breathe, and walk upon the earth. We know this naturally, as the brute creation knows. We know that our food and drink come from the elements around us: by them we are nourished, cherished, refreshed, and sustained, with the addition of sleep. We live and breathe, and breathe and live. Who can define and point out the particularities of the wonderful organization of man?

It enters into the minds of but few that the air we inhale is the greatest source of our life. We derive more real nourishment to our mortal tabernacles from this element than from the solid food we receive into our stomachs. Our lungs expand and contract to sustain the life which God has given us. Of the component parts of this great fountain of vitality I have not time to treat; but this interesting information you may gather in part from numerous works on natural philosophy. I will, however, say that the air is full of life and vitality, and its volume fills immensity. The relative terms height, depth, length, and breadth do not apply to it. Could you pass with the velocity of the electric fluid over telegraphic wires, during the continuation of more years than you can comprehend, you would still be surrounded by it and in the bosom of eternity as much as you now are; and it is filled with the spirit of life which emanates from God.

Many have tried to penetrate to the First Cause of all things; but it would be as easy for an ant to number the grains of sand on the earth. It is not for man, with his limited intelligence, to grasp eternity in his comprehension. There is an eternity of life, from which we were composed by the wisdom and skill of superior Beings. It would be as easy for a gnat to trace the history of man back to his origin as for man to fathom the First Cause of all things, lift the veil of eternity, and reveal the mysteries that have been sought after by philosophers from the beginning. What, then, should be the calling and duty of the children of men? Instead of inquiring after the origin of the Gods—instead of trying to explore the depths of eternities that have been, that are, and that will be,—instead of endeavouring to discover the boundaries of boundless space, let them seek to know the object of their present existence, and how to apply, in the most profitable manner for their mutual good and salvation, the intelligence they possess. Let them seek to know and thoroughly understand

things within their reach, and to make themselves well acquainted with the object of their being here, by diligently seeking unto a superior Power for information, and by the careful study of the best books.

The life that is within us is a part of an eternity of life, and is organized spirit, which is clothed upon by tabernacles, thereby constituting our present being, which is designed for the attainment of further intelligence. The matter composing our bodies and spirits has been organized from the eternity of matter that fills immensity.

Were I to fully speak what I know and understand concerning myself and others, you might think me to be infringing. I shall therefore omit some things that I would otherwise say to you if the people were prepared to receive them.

Jesus Christ says, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent." We are not now in a capacity to know him in his fulness of glory. We know a few things that he has revealed concerning himself, but there are a great many which we do not know. When people have secured to themselves eternal life, they are where they can understand the true character of their Father and God, and the object of the creation, fall, and redemption of man after the creation of this world. These points have ever been subjects for speculation with all classes of believers, and are subjects of much interest, to those who entertain a deep anxiety to know how to secure to themselves eternal life. Our bodies are organized from the eternity of matter, from such matter as we breathe, and from such matter as is found in the vegetable and mineral kingdoms. This matter is organized into a world, with all its appendages, by whom? By the Almighty and women who are made in the image of God.

All this vast creation was produced from element in its unorganized state; the mountains, rivers, seas, valleys, plains, and the animal, vegetable, and mineral kingdoms beneath and around us, all speaking forth the wonderful works of the Great God. Shall I say that the seeds of vegetables were planted here by the Characters that framed and, built this world—that the seeds of every plant composing the vegetable kingdom were brought from another world? This would be news to many of you. Who brought them here? It matters little to us whether it was John, James, William, Adam, or Bartholomew who brought them; but it was some Being who had power to frame this earth with its seas, valleys, mountains, and rivers, and cause it to teem with vegetable and animal life.

Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon the earth, When you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobies from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell. Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. The offspring of Adam and Eve are commanded to take the rude elements, and, by the knowledge God has given, to convert them into everything required for their life, health, adornment, wealth, comfort, and consolation. Have we the knowledge to do this? We have. Who gave us this knowledge? Our Father who made us; for he is the only wise God, and to

"What then did Brigham Young ever say as a [Prophet]? "

At many general conferences (if not all) he, as prophet, relayed the will of God to his people and taught them gospel principles. Even a prophet who is not given any revelations on doctrinal issues still recieves revelation on organizational and administrative matters as well and so fulfills his calling by serving as God requires of him.

"Also what do you do with the statements of Brigham Young that every sermon he ever preached was as good as scripture?"

His statement put clear conditions on when a sermon is his could be taken 'as good as scripture'. Those conditions included the requirement that he get the chance to review the transcript and ensure it is correct. That rarely happened with the private speaches he gave such as those in the JoD.

Oh please. There is a clear process by which new doctrine and scripture are accepted into the church, and the JoD didn't even BEGIN to go down that path.

Certainly there is much in the JoD that is good, and the personal opinons you posted about it are not unfounded, but for you to try and portray it as anything more than a collection of their personal opinions is an attempt to decieve. It is not and never was cannon.
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/organization/priesthood/prophets/official.htm

That rarely happened with the private speaches he gave such as those in the JoD.

Those were not "private" speeches, they were public speeches. And Brigham Young had all the opportunity he wanted to correct Mr. Watt's transcripts. In the preface to JOD Vol 1, Brigham Young stated in as many words that he had such confidence in Mr. Watt's professionalism in the art of phonography, that it was obviously not necessary for Young to correct the transcripts. Brigham Young accepted them as accurate.

Why don't you?

"So there are BY sermons that really would be scripture if he had a chance to proof read and spell-check them? "

There are BY sermons that would be as correct as scripture if he did proof them, but that alone would not make them scripture. To become scripture they would also have to be presented to the church and accepted by the First Presidency, Quorum of the 12 and the general membership by sustaining vote in a General Conference. Revisions in existing scripture are accepted the same way.

Just because something is true doesn't mean it must become cannon. I don't expect there to ever be a request for a sustaining vote for the truth that the earth goes around the sun.

"Those were not "private" speeches, "

Private was the word my sleep deprived brain landed on when what I meant was that he was speaking as a private citizen, not speaking as the prophet of God.

"And Brigham Young had all the opportunity he wanted to correct Mr. Watt's transcripts."

You know the timetable of his life that well? Even if he sat around with nothing to do for 10 years it doesn't matter. The fact is that he did not proof them so they are outside of cannon. It doesn't matter when, how, or why he didn't proof them, the 'default' is that they are outside of cannon and they only get to be added to cannon one way.

What is the clear process by which new doctrine and scripture is excepted into your religion? In the Christian faith there is no new doctrine, or scripture.We are warned many times in the Bible not to except any new, or different doctrine. Not to add to, or take from the Bible.We are being warned not to listen to even an angel from heaven, or Paul himself if he tried to change that Gospel. This is a very serious thing. Scriptures worth repeating:

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel, which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an ANGEL from heaven, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.Galatians 1,6-9

For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works@ Cor.11,13-15

No I am not trying to decieve. I honestly believe that what Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young and others taught is very relevant to your religion. How can you except this man made religion without excepting what the the very men that made it have to say about it. CRAZY!! You have to see through your own protest? You want to pick, and choose depending on how socially exceptable their teaching is today.

he was speaking as a private citizen

Is there anyone who actually speaks for the church? When Young gave these speeches he was the President of the LDS Church. He was regarded by every member of the LDS Church as the living mouthpiece of God on the earth. Now you claim he was speaking with no authority whatsoever.

By your standards, nobody speaks for the LDS Church! Indeed, by your standards I would have as much authority to speak on Mormon Doctrine as your present Prophet.

Just who speaks for the LDS Church these days? You haven't cannonized anything lately. So who's in charge? What is it that you guys actually believe? Is there anything you guys agree on? Is there a consensus that God was once a man? Or was that just Joe Smith's sleep deprived brain spewing out nonsense?

To become scripture they would also have to be presented to the church and accepted by the First Presidency, Quorum of the 12 and the general membership by sustaining vote in a General Conference.

Can you show me where this was ever done for the Book of Mormon?

Did your church ever do this for the Bible? If so, which version? The KJV or the JSV?

And if it is scripture, then why don't you believe it?

It doesn't matter when, how, or why he didn't proof them, the 'default' is that they are outside of cannon and they only get to be added to cannon one way.

But... the sermons CANNOT be wrong, according to this:

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

[It's canon, BTW]

Because the LDS Church leaders today are teaching doctrines that conflict with the early teachings of the Church, it has become necessary to "play down" the importance of the Journal of Discourses. When one becomes aware of the magnitude of the discrepancies between Church doctrines as they are now being taught compared to as they were taught originally, it is not difficult to see why the LDS Church leaders are trying to keep the wool over our eyes.

Brigham Young said, "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture." (Journal of Discourses 13:95).

He said he NEVER preached a sermon that may not be called scripture. Was he a liar?

His statement put clear conditions on when a sermon is his could be taken 'as good as scripture'. Those conditions included the requirement that he get the chance to review the transcript and ensure it is correct. That rarely happened with the private speaches he gave such as those in the JoD.

Where did he do this? Was he lying when he said ""I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture." (Journal of Discourses 13:95).

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