Posted on 10/07/2002 1:03:41 PM PDT by Polycarp
This is a decent summary from a non-Catholic source:
Current status of Mary:
Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status.
The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:
|
1. Mary is the Mother of God. |
|
2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life. |
Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19th and 20th centuries:
|
3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE. |
|
4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1 |
In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:
|
In ancient times:
|
||||||
|
1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. 1 | ||||||
|
1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. 1 | ||||||
|
Circa 1965: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II states, in part:
|
||||||
|
1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4 | ||||||
|
1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." 1 | ||||||
|
1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." 1 |
Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.
Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." 3 Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:
|
Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption. |
|
Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces. |
|
Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments. |
If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. 5,6
Sheesh, you folks are nutz. Augustine really a protestant...<>
Of course the scriptures include the oral and written teachings of the early church...those are not the issue..did you read the entire article? Those Doctrines that God intended to have as inspired truth were inspired by the Holy Spirit and written down..
Incorrect. Absolutely incorrect. I have found far more in common with Rnmom and Hank Kerchief, than I have with any Catholic here on FR. I prefer to be lumped with the protestants, thank you.
We have a firm base in Holy Scripture, belief in and support of individual communion with God ( our priests are *not* mediators), no authority of the church as the Catholics view it - the church for us is the people rather than an earthly and transient institution, no papism or infallible humans, no purgatory or Marianism, and many more commonalities with the Protestants.
Catholic Guy recently elaborated quite well on this topic. He said in another thread, "You guys are protestants" to an Orthodox Christian.
The sin and excesses and false teaching that led to the reformation may well have moved that authority..
"And, since it is he that commits the government into their hand, they must administer it according to his will, for his glory; they must judge for him by whom they judge and decree justice, Prov. 8:15. And they may depend upon him to furnish them for what he calls them to, according to this promise: I will clothe him; and then it follows, I will strengthen him. Those that are called to places of trust and power should seek unto God for grace to enable them to do the duty of their places; for that ought to be their chief care. "
Matthew Henry
I would submit those keys were withdrawn. The Catholic church was no longer the sole voice of Chrisitanity..the voice was moved to the reformers.
Except what it does is make mary a godess..other than that no problem
Well we have not made the Presbyterians the ark of Noah or Calvin the ark of the covenant so we have a way to go to catch up to you guys..
I prefer my own words words to the false ones you attribute to me.<>
Unless you prefer to make God the creator of what you called "egregious and hateful doctrine" then you must have Calvin as its creator.
<>Not at all. His "Doctrine" comes from Satan. The scorpion's egg of "You shall be like Gods" was implanted in his intellect. Calvin's Will fertislised it and the bastard child was brought forth- Calvin's Dark Doctrines - and those with itching ears, anxious for new doctrine sallied forth to worship the Mother of errors and His child . <>
Thus, in the context and meaning of "mother" we must default to creator as its meaning.
<> Is your Mother your Creator?<>
Therefore, I conclude that you said that Mary is the creator of God, Theotokos
<> LMAO. NOTHING a Calvinist concludes surprises me anymore. <>
Could you please Father, grant me wisdom to understand that the ark which saves is a CHURCH of some kind. That means don't you know, that I am now able to save myself if I can just find the RIGHT CHURCH! Holy Moses, what a revelation!
Mary, I have learned, is the ARK of the NEW Covenant, which means, yes it does, that MARY is The WORD of GOD! Holy double Moses!! So Mary created the earth and everything in it was created for Mary! What I need to do now is join just as fast as I can, The Church of Mary so I can save myself.
I thought I was saved when I believed that Jesus was the Son of God, the Redeemer and that He was the Word (John is just plain wrong!!) and the ARK of the New Covenant. I see now that his words at the last supper to the apostles is all a lie but now that I see that he is just day old bread after all, I'm forgetting all about the guy.
So anyway, Father Calven, holy French Dutchman whatever, please send me an answer pronto OKAY and guise me to a church. I'll send my address in a more private prayer. Thanks a lot, your devoted Jesse
Why did she have to be sinless? Because Jesus had to be born without the taint of original sin.
Why did He have to be without sin? To be the perfect atoning sacrifice.
Why was an atoning sacrifice needed? To atone for those subject to original sin.
Who is subject to original sin? All descendents of Adam and Eve.
So...we are all, as descendents of Adam and Eve, subject to the corruption of original sin, born in slavery to sin and as sinners thus worthy of eternal damnation. My question is why did God send His only begotten Son to die in atonement for the sins of the elect (defined in this case as all those who are ultimately saved) if He simply could have suspended the taint of original sin in all His elect from the start and eliminated the need to die for all of them? Furthermore (and I think I know the Catholic answer for this but I'll ask anyway), why not just suspend it in Christ Himself instead of in Mary?
No that little doctrine of his was tried out on the Presbyterians.Before he left.he has held that doctrine a LONG time..Catholics do not know scripture ..so he misquotes and you do not notice . He teaches his own little false doctrine and you do not notice because you do not know the words Jesus spoke. BUT he does, trust me, Protestants (especially pastors ) know much of the scripture by heart ..I am sure he does ...BUT the real words do not fit his theology..so he makes a "slight " change..who will notice? .He like Catholics much better than Presbyterians..they know a lie when they hear one:>)
NO changing enter into entering changes the entire meaning and you know that cg that is why you are so angry.
<> LMAO I get all tingly and whatnot when I am called a "reprobate." To REALLY please me, tell me I will spend eternity in Hell. :)<>
Oh, that's right. Reprobate means I AM predetermined for Hell. That being the case, why waste your time on one like me?<>
I have never said anyone was going to hell because they did not agree with me..you think lying and slander is appropriate..it is a shame when that is the only way you can defend your faith..THAT should tell you something CG..
I have said people that have studied the word and can not do a plain reading are unregenerate. Now all men were unregenerate untill they are born again...but it is especially dangerous for one that seeks to lead and to teach as a pastor..
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
