I don’t recall any like this though, where things devolved all the way among Catholics. In recent months a group of us here began to get pretty close and friendly, some even talking about a Catholic caucus. The reality though is that the FR and the caucus include Catholics with very different views, and we really aren’t united on anything. When the Church goes through hard times like these, fault lines show, people’s words get a little more blunt, people’s skin gets a little thinner, people all over get more defensive. A lot of us feel a great deal of concern over the Church and its direction right now. Personal attacks increase, and its hard not to take offense, its hard to keep that little note of sarcasm from springing into your response, its hard to be charitable to those who have offended you. I can easily say all of these things apply to me, and I think they apply to most of us on this thread right now. I think I’ve seen nearly all of you say things a bit out of character, as have I.
I tend to think this is all natural. As painful as it may be, most of us are under extra stress right now, though we often have different reasons for it. Some of us face financial pressures. Layoffs or fears of layoffs, cash flow crunches, debt. Others are remembering September 11 and those who lost their lives; the possibility of another war, our soldiers’ lives and civilian suffering. For others, the turmoil in the Church strikes at home, the abuse crisis and its ongoing fallout, the modernist abuses, Bishops, priests, etc. All the fault lines become apparent from these things. Others have had family members pass on, are bringing new children into families, are looking at moving, changing jobs, changing parishes. I doubt there are many of us who aren’t a little bit more affected by at least some of these things right now. There is a lot more tension in the air.
The result of that is some of the hostility towards our own. It is pretty common in society in general right now. The Catholics on FR aren’t normally like this. We don’t normally eat our own on these threads like some of the other groups do. Many outsiders have recognized this in the past. They have recognized that Catholics are different, that as a group they treat each other and treat outsiders alike with charity.
These things said, we have always been a diverse group. We have always disagreed with each other on these threads, and these disagreements sometimes become more pointed when one or both of the posters are under some stress, whether from FR related things or things outside of FR. This is no reason to panic. We do need see each other as God’s children at these times. I didn’t learn things about the faith by coming here and having everyone agree with me, and I hope that never happens. I learned, to the extent I have learned, when people debated with me. Sometimes I was right, sometimes wrong. Some did a better job of educating me than others, especially those who did so with the utmost charity. I am forever in their debt, especially for the charitable rebukes.
We have never shared a single common goal here on FR. Some come here to debate. Some come here to evangelize, whether it be the faithless, other Christians, or other Catholics. Some come to learn. Others to talk politics, and from time to time talk religion. Some come for fellowship. Others for a chance to have their ideas tested. We will never be a cohesive group that agrees on much of anything, much less everything. To whatever extent we were a group to start with, we won’t even stay a group for very long. Some people will come, others will go. Some of the Catholics who were synonymous with Catholicism on FR when I joined aren’t here anymore; some are here only sporadically. Some will take breaks, others will leave entirely.
If FR isn’t bringing you closer to God, and especially if it pulls you away, take a break. Come back if it is appropriate, even if just to say hi from time to time, its always nice to see people again. I’m probably not a good example, but FR always does fine when I’m gone, and all the Catholics manage without me. How many even notice my absence? Few, I suspect, can name the last time I took an extended break. (This disappoints my pride to no end, of course.)
The Catholic Church is a very big place. There is a lot of room in it for disagreement. There are some things that are non-negotiable, certainly, and some positions that are harmful to the faith. But most people do not hold to those things. Have some tolerance on others who hold a belief you think is wrong. They may be wrong, they may be harming the faith, but give them a fair chance to understand their error, as each of us have them.
A suggestion, feel free to ignore it. There is nothing to be gained in any further blame on this thread. Who started what or is at fault doesn’t matter any more. The battle lines are drawn, and there won’t be any traitors at this point. Further war just brings further bloodshed. Don’t reply to any posts in the battle, leave them lie.
Rather, apologize to the person, publicly or by freepermail. It doesn’t matter who started it, or even if you weren’t the one in the wrong. If you were uncharitable, just swallow your pride and apologize. This is probably the only thing I’ve managed to learn in marriage. Saying your sorry changes the situation, and allows the other person to consider your viewpoint whereas before they couldn’t hear you at all.
One last thing. We are all baptized here. As such, we are all members of Christ’s body. Treat each other as you would Christ. Sometimes that necessitates hard words, but be clear about why you say them – you should believe they will bring the subject or others closer to God.
Above all, may God bless you all. Good night,
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
patent +AMDG
All the best ... I'm keeping you, your lovely wife and your ever-increasing riches in my prayers.
This is definitely happening. Perhaps some time on our knees or sitting and reading the Bible for 15-20 minutes is what we need during these times of stress.
Some did a better job of educating me than others, especially those who did so with the utmost charity. I am forever in their debt, especially for the charitable rebukes.
This has happened to me, and I appreciate the charitable rebukes (pulling me up by the bootstraps and telling me I was wrong!)
Saying your sorry changes the situation, and allows the other person to consider your viewpoint whereas before they couldn’t hear you at all.
So true. Communication is a two way street.
One last thing. We are all baptized here. As such, we are all members of Christ’s body. Treat each other as you would Christ.
Thank you so much, patent, for this wonderful advice. How about just having a daily discussion thread instead of corrupting a thread such as this one?
and all the Catholics manage without me. How many even notice my absence? Few, I suspect, can name the last time I took an extended break. (This disappoints my pride to no end, of course.)
When you are not around, there is quite a large gap in our Caucus. I notice it very much, and noted your extended break too, as do others, and I hope you are able to resume your activity level, Mrs. Patent permitting of course.
Treat each other as you would Christ. Sometimes that necessitates hard words, but be clear about why you say them – you should believe they will bring the subject or others closer to God.
I would however add Polycarp's name to yours as being missed when your not around. It seems I look for one or both when I find a posting on Catholicism.
Exactly.