Letter of Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos to Mgr. Fellay

Una Voce` ^

[StillSmallVoice]

Why change your name? Some Hispanic Catholics have long been named Jesus. other cultures too.

[StillSmallVoice]

Besides you will only be falling for their old ad hominem tactics which they fall back on when they cannot answer for their anti-catholicism.

[narses]

My quotes are from both ends of the most recent letter from Card. Catrillon, not "earlier" or "later" rather latest. I've read the whole letter, I understand exactly what was said.

[Antoninus]

I do not think, dear Antoninus, that you are talking about the Crisis magazine article.

Oops! I was thinking about the Culture Wars article back in June. My bad.

Personally, I feel that the public reaction to Goodbye, Good Men is a good litmus test to see which periodicals, groups, and individuals "get it" and which either don't want to or are (covertly) part of the problem. So far, the Wanderer, which I subscribe to, has given the book a good review. The National Catholic Register and Culture Wars, both of which I do not subscribe to since I have had some doubts about them in the past, have given bad reviews. I'm waiting to see what New Oxford Review says.

You need only to visit http://www.goodbyegoodmen.com and read some of the testimonials posted there to know that Goodbye, Good Men has only scratched the surface of this problem. I just thank God I live in one of the "good" dioceses with a "good" seminary.

As for my "credibility," lambs do not expect credibility in the wolf den, but they hope against hope.

Please. You've used just about every rhetorical device in the book to make yourself look like the suffering paragon of Apostolic virtue and everyone who dares to disagree with you the idiotic schismatic oppressors. You're not fooling anyone here. Knock it off and get real.

[Antoninus]

Antonius, see my earlier reply about "demands" made to the pope being impertinent by those trying to get out from under excommunication. It is rather like the poor insane condemned killer demanding to be let off the gallows. You will fin an answer implicit there.

Yet still a non-answer. One more time, this time with multiple choice answers:

If the Vatican and SSPX were to reconcile on exactly the terms the SSPX has demanded, would you:

A.) Denounce the decision as a mistake and capitulation, and spend time aggitating against SSPX priests coming into your diocese.

B.) Leave the Church in disgust.

C.) Shut your trap and accept the decision of the Vatican.

[narses]

LOL, so you admit your post was erroneous. As for me being "reactionary", well, I am what I am. Get used to it.

[ELS]

patent, I apologize for any offense or pain I have caused you. It is quite apparent to me that we are speaking different "languages." The meaning that I try to communicate it vastly different than the meaning that you receive.

You are looking for physical proof of a spiritual problem. I cannot give that to you. I am heartbroken by what has happened to our beautiful Church. I have read too many details of shocking, horrifying and depressing goings on. Perhaps you and sitetest are right and the situation re: the Eucharist isn't as bad as the survey made it out to be. OTOH, given the rampant dissent and heresy that have been allowed to flourish, it doesn't seem that incredible, either.

[sinkspur]

If the Vatican and SSPX were to reconcile on exactly the terms the SSPX has demanded, would you:

You keep asking this question as if it were going to happen.

The SSPX's demands are the same demands it has made for years. The Vatican will not accept those demands, especially that one which the SSPX would like to use to supplant the Novus Ordo by allowing priests to, willy-nilly, use the Tridentine Mass whenever they want.

Fellay and company had best accept what JPII is offering; they're not going to get a more conservative Pope on this issue. There are those in the Vatican who would walk away from the SSPX and leave it in its schism.

The SSPX is not going to bend. An idiot like Williamson, with his fascination with the Unabomber, will heel to no one, least of all the Pope.

[narses]

You are far from infallible Sinkspur, further there are those in the Curia that agree with the SSPX issues vis-a-vis the liturgy. Card. Ratzinger has approached Mgr. Fellay with a commission to look into the liturgical issues with SSPX and Vatican theologians. Frankly the Campos resolution and the offer on the table are so close to the "asking price" of the SSPX that your protestations seem a bit shrill. As for Bp. Williamson, he may end up in the SSPV if your claims about him are correct. That will be sad, but it isn't the core issue.

How do you answer the question? (Stipulating that the offer is accepted with the Tridentine Indult requirement deleted and that Rite universally available.)

[St.Chuck]

Thank you so much for posting Williamson's letter. Very insightful into the "mind" of the SSPX.

[sinkspur]

How do you answer the question? (Stipulating that the offer is accepted with the Tridentine Indult requirement deleted and that Rite universally available.)

The Indult requirement will not be deleted. Period. The normative Mass is the Novus Ordo, and, even a Pope as acquiescent to the Tridentine Liturgy as JPII recognizes that it would be undermined by establishing another pseudo-normative mass.

The Campos resolution established another fraternity, the SSJV, which is not what the SSPX wants universally. If Rome were going to grant a blanket recognition for any priest to say the Tridentine Liturgy publicly whenver he chose, it would have granted that to Campos(since Campos wanted the same thing).

I won't leave the Church under any circumstances.

[StillSmallVoice]

Sinkspur is in touch with the real world and the real battles and knows where the real enemies are and where to point his sword. Antonius and narses, even after the latest Hoyos warning, is living in some quiet delusion, a utopia of his, theirs, and best not be disturbed.

The storms are great and the mutinous and the sad nervous ones are tempted to shut their eyes, run and live in dreamland of yesteryears.

The cross is a disturbing darkness for all, especially for those who prefer times when the lake was calm. But those who remain steadfast with Peter in Christ will, by grace, endure to the end and save their souls. Meanwhile, we pray for these others who attack Peter in his hour of need and countless persecutions. How tragically unlike the Saints! See Hoyos' quote from St. Catherine of Siena who would scorn any attempt to even suggest the Pope could break with the "substance" of Tadition (as opposed to the passing accidents of other traditions--like burnings at the stake---which the Church rejected as not being part of her substance, the Deposit of Faith which only Rome can interpret and pass on.

[sinkspur]

Antonius and narses, even after the latest Hoyos warning, is living in some quiet delusion, a utopia of his, theirs, and best not be disturbed.

I wouldn't be that hard on our compatriots. They are Tridentine advocates, which is fine, but the dispute with the SSPX is about more than the Tridentine Mass.

JPII earnestly wants to bring the SSPX back, and, it appears, Fellay is in dialogue with the Vatican.

But the hair-on-fire types, like Williamson, will simply not concur, and they will never concur.

I look for a partial reunion, with the diehards following Williamson off into the weeds.

[Siobhan]

I agree with you that Williamson won't return to the Church, but I would refrain from calling him an idiot. He is very clever (and I don't mean that as a compliment). He has the charisma to gather together all of the sedevacantists and have himself elected Pope/anti-pope.

[sinkspur]

He is very clever (and I don't mean that as a compliment). He has the charisma to gather together all of the sedevacantists and have himself elected Pope/anti-pope.

I suspect this is what he wants and, frankly, I hope he does it.

Like the "Old Catholics," he and his followers will then slink into insignificance.

[patent]

ELS,

Thanks for the reply.

I am heartbroken by what has happened to our beautiful Church.

I am too, far too many times.

God bless,

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

He has the charisma to gather together all of the sedevacantists and have himself elected Pope/anti-pope

He will have lots of company. There are already a half dozen sedevacantist types claiming to be Pope.

patent  +AMDG

[Siobhan]

Yes, that's true. The blog called "A Saintly Salmagundi" had a series this last week on all of the current anti-popes including the one consecrated in a Holiday Inn in Kansas...