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15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense [THE FINAL DEBUNKING]
Scientific American ^ | 17 June 2002 | John Rennie

Posted on 06/17/2002 3:10:50 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

Opponents of evolution want to make a place for creationism by tearing down real science, but their arguments don't hold up

When Charles Darwin introduced the theory of evolution through natural selection 143 years ago, the scientists of the day argued over it fiercely, but the massing evidence from paleontology, genetics, zoology, molecular biology and other fields gradually established evolution's truth beyond reasonable doubt. Today that battle has been won everywhere--except in the public imagination.

Embarrassingly, in the 21st century, in the most scientifically advanced nation the world has ever known, creationists can still persuade politicians, judges and ordinary citizens that evolution is a flawed, poorly supported fantasy. They lobby for creationist ideas such as "intelligent design" to be taught as alternatives to evolution in science classrooms. As this article goes to press, the Ohio Board of Education is debating whether to mandate such a change. Some antievolutionists, such as Philip E. Johnson, a law professor at the University of California at Berkeley and author of Darwin on Trial, admit that they intend for intelligent-design theory to serve as a "wedge" for reopening science classrooms to discussions of God.

Besieged teachers and others may increasingly find themselves on the spot to defend evolution and refute creationism. The arguments that creationists use are typically specious and based on misunderstandings of (or outright lies about) evolution, but the number and diversity of the objections can put even well-informed people at a disadvantage.

To help with answering them, the following list rebuts some of the most common "scientific" arguments raised against evolution. It also directs readers to further sources for information and explains why creation science has no place in the classroom.

1. Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

2. Natural selection is based on circular reasoning: the fittest are those who survive, and those who survive are deemed fittest. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

3. Evolution is unscientific, because it is not testable or falsifiable. It makes claims about events that were not observed and can never be re-created. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

4. Increasingly, scientists doubt the truth of evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

5. The disagreements among even evolutionary biologists show how little solid science supports evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

6. If humans descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

7. Evolution cannot explain how life first appeared on earth. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

8. Mathematically, it is inconceivable that anything as complex as a protein, let alone a living cell or a human, could spring up by chance. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

9. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that systems must become more disordered over time. Living cells therefore could not have evolved from inanimate chemicals, and multicellular life could not have evolved from protozoa. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

10. Mutations are essential to evolution theory, but mutations can only eliminate traits. They cannot produce new features. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

11. Natural selection might explain microevolution, but it cannot explain the origin of new species and higher orders of life. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

12. Nobody has ever seen a new species evolve. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

13. Evolutionists cannot point to any transitional fossils--creatures that are half reptile and half bird, for instance. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

14. Living things have fantastically intricate features--at the anatomical, cellular and molecular levels--that could not function if they were any less complex or sophisticated. The only prudent conclusion is that they are the products of intelligent design, not evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

15. Recent discoveries prove that even at the microscopic level, life has a quality of complexity that could not have come about through evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

CONCLUSION
"Creation science" is a contradiction in terms. A central tenet of modern science is methodological naturalism--it seeks to explain the universe purely in terms of observed or testable natural mechanisms. Thus, physics describes the atomic nucleus with specific concepts governing matter and energy, and it tests those descriptions experimentally. Physicists introduce new particles, such as quarks, to flesh out their theories only when data show that the previous descriptions cannot adequately explain observed phenomena. The new particles do not have arbitrary properties, moreover--their definitions are tightly constrained, because the new particles must fit within the existing framework of physics.

In contrast, intelligent-design theorists invoke shadowy entities that conveniently have whatever unconstrained abilities are needed to solve the mystery at hand. Rather than expanding scientific inquiry, such answers shut it down. (How does one disprove the existence of omnipotent intelligences?)

Intelligent design offers few answers. For instance, when and how did a designing intelligence intervene in life's history? By creating the first DNA? The first cell? The first human? Was every species designed, or just a few early ones? Proponents of intelligent-design theory frequently decline to be pinned down on these points. They do not even make real attempts to reconcile their disparate ideas about intelligent design. Instead they pursue argument by exclusion--that is, they belittle evolutionary explanations as far-fetched or incomplete and then imply that only design-based alternatives remain.

Logically, this is misleading: even if one naturalistic explanation is flawed, it does not mean that all are. Moreover, it does not make one intelligent-design theory more reasonable than another. Listeners are essentially left to fill in the blanks for themselves, and some will undoubtedly do so by substituting their religious beliefs for scientific ideas.

Time and again, science has shown that methodological naturalism can push back ignorance, finding increasingly detailed and informative answers to mysteries that once seemed impenetrable: the nature of light, the causes of disease, how the brain works. Evolution is doing the same with the riddle of how the living world took shape. Creationism, by any name, adds nothing of intellectual value to the effort.

The Author(s):

John Rennie is editor in chief of Scientific American.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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To: jlogajan
But I'll ask, do you have an example of an alternate route to knowledge that came to us through intuition or divine revelation and not through scientific discovery?

One example of "intuition" is Einstein's theory of relativity. It was theory, not proven until years later (parts of it are still being "proven").

There is a lot of creativity and intuition in persuing pure science. Theories are imagination, and then it takes imagination to test the theory.

The idea that things can be measured and that laws of nature are universal are assumptions based on "divine revealation".

The 12th century philosophers who began science assumed that the universe was logical because God was logical. Because God was logical, then man, using his logic, was doing the work of God when he explored the universe. So you could say that the entire field of science is based on a "divine revealation" that nature is not a mysterious god to be worshipped, but a creation of a logical creator. And science assumes there is a logical explanation behind nature, because the original philosophy behind science, i.e. Christianity, assumed a logical creator who created things logically.

861 posted on 06/18/2002 4:46:03 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: LadyDoc
Darwin started his search with the question of how things could exist without God: Not as an indifferent scientist).

You know this is ad hominem (to the man) and therefore irrelevent. Evolution stands or falls on its own merits, not the motivation of its proponents. The same is true for proponents of "Intelligent Design." Of course their agenda is to prove God. So? ID stands or falls on the evidence they bring to the table. In that department they have a lot of work to do.

862 posted on 06/18/2002 4:46:15 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: LadyDoc
One example of "intuition" is Einstein's theory of relativity. It was theory, not proven until years later (parts of it are still being "proven").

Pattern recognition. It is one of the characteristics that evolved into most of the higher animals. Humans can take it to abstract levels.

However, pattern recognition fails as often as it succeeds. Even Einstein produced flawed theories that he later scrapped. The validation of such an extrapolation relies on physical observations. Until it is validated by the normal materialistic routes of knowledge, it is a guess, a speculation -- and reviewing the history of guesses -- usually flawed, incomplete, or just dead wrong.

863 posted on 06/18/2002 4:59:01 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Washington_minuteman
You can't fold a solid rock.

You most certainly can.

Lecture 11 Structural Geology

Structural Geology

CRETIGO: B (Personal Incredulity)

864 posted on 06/18/2002 5:09:30 AM PDT by Junior
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To: LadyDoc
(Darwin started his search with the question of how things could exist without God: Not as an indifferent scientist).

But why do you lay this at Darwin's feet? It is the purpose of science to find quantifiable explanations for natural phenomena. Back in Newton's day, people honestly believed that the planets moved in their courses because angels were pushing them around by hand. Newton came along and demonstrated that gravity was sufficient to explain all planetary motion, and as a result, Newton "banished God from the heavens themselves", as has been said. Why don't I see you railing against him? The distinction is political.

So OK, maybe the development of life is a series of divine miracles. But please don't call that science, and don't whine if science nevertheless tries to find rational explanations. That's what science is for. That's what science is. Calling something a supernatural miracle is a refusal to search for a rational explanation. It is a last resort after every possible rational explanation has been tried and disproven. It is a throwing up of the hands and an abdication of the goals and purposes of science.

That may seem to you like an appropriate response to the daunting complexities of life on Earth, but you are way out of line in chiding scientists for not feeling the same way. Science is what we do. Other people's belief systems can't be permitted to influence our research. The fact that basic biology offends your political sensibilities is of no more consequence than the offense some tribal shaman might take at the atomic theory of matter.

865 posted on 06/18/2002 5:13:45 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Poohbah
The Bible's valuation of pi does not agree with what the mathematicians came up with.

What is the Bible's valuation of pi?

Cordially,

866 posted on 06/18/2002 5:27:35 AM PDT by Diamond
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To: Diamond
Three.
867 posted on 06/18/2002 5:31:41 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Diamond
Per 1 Kings 7:23, 3.00000 (to five decimal places).
868 posted on 06/18/2002 5:33:29 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Diamond
And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: [it was] round all about, and his height [was] five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
1Ki 7:23
CRETIGO:

869 posted on 06/18/2002 5:39:11 AM PDT by Junior
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To: AmericaUnited
Of course God knew evolutionist wackos would be here today and wanted to give everyone a good laugh, watching them try to explain that one.

They just hide their heads in the sand and ignore all evidence against their theory. As you will notice their posts are always 'factually deficient'.

870 posted on 06/18/2002 5:42:53 AM PDT by gore3000
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To: Physicist
So OK, maybe the development of life is a series of divine miracles. But please don't call that science

Well, sort of shows the evolutionists outlook does it not? If the answer is God, even if it is true, it is false! I thought science was about discovering the truth of nature. If God is part of that nature then it is science, like it or not.

871 posted on 06/18/2002 5:48:28 AM PDT by gore3000
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To: Junior
Yes, it's possible. But it also may be impossible. Many aspects of Christian morality (love your enemies, save sex until marriage and be faithful to your spouse, turn the other cheek when assaulted, etc. etc. are exactly the things one would NOT expect under evolutionary theory - where those with traits that help the traits' bearers out- propagate those with other traits come to dominate. Or maybe affinity for Christian morality is brought about by random mutations and Christians will slowly slide into evolutionary oblivion. For reasons you can guess, I reject that notion and suspect that other things are in play.
872 posted on 06/18/2002 5:48:52 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: F16Fighter
Sure, I agree that molecular biology is in a sense the study of God's masterful handiwork. I don't think this has been proven yet, but Dembski et al. may eventually provide science with a way to formalize complexity in biological systems.
873 posted on 06/18/2002 5:53:17 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: jlogajan
Darwin started his search with the question of how things could exist without God: Not as an indifferent scientist). -lady doc-

You know this is ad hominem (to the man) and therefore irrelevent.

No it is not irrelevant. It is imbued in the whole philosophy of evolution. Darwin was an atheist but deceitfully hid it from the world throughout his life. In other words, he was a liar. That may be an attack on his character, but it is not an ad hominem. It is a factually correct statement.

874 posted on 06/18/2002 5:53:26 AM PDT by gore3000
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To: Physicist
Very, very interesting. Thank you - and I wish you good luck with the project.
875 posted on 06/18/2002 5:54:46 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: jennyp
Because of what general_re said in #846. (I couldn't've said it any better.

That's not always and everywhere true, but it's certainly true that being a Christian in a largely Christian society is easier than choosing some other path. It was easier to worship Jupiter in Rome around AD 100 than it was to be a Christian, and now the roles are reversed - it's easier to be a Christian than to be some other way in this society.

That's not to say that people choose it because it's easier, but that most people never really choose it at all - it's simply handed to them by their parents and society, and the only conscious choice often comes in the form of a choice to reject it, rather than to embrace it.

The general leaves a lot out, i.e. all the people choosing Christianity to get away from the human sacrafice, cannibalism, headhunting, headshrinking, debauchery etc. etc. which went along with the older religions.

I saw an interview once with a Maori who noted that Christianity was the best thing that ever happened to Indonesia and Borneo. The guys grandfather had spent ten or twelve years in colonial prisons for taking heads, and he said nobody had ever gotten a decent night's sleep in the whole history of the place (either because they were out all night hunting neighbors heads or worrying about other people taking THEIR heads), and that after the area was Christianized, all of that stopped and it became possible to lead productive lives. Basically, a man had to take at least one human head before he was elligible for marriage.

I mean, who the hell wants to live that way? Why would anybody in ancient Rome want to live that way? The decision to become a Christian, once the opportunity presented itself, was probably the easiest decision anybody in Rome ever made.

876 posted on 06/18/2002 5:55:36 AM PDT by medved
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To: jlogajan
Why does the Creator need to be created? Please keep in mind that the very act of creation implies an event in time. But you already knew that. You just ask these questions, as I said, to work out some bizzare psycho-masturbatory frustrations you have. That's the only possible explaination, because you troll these same threads day in and day out, month after month, and you clearly don't accomplish anything. I can only conclude that it does something for you on a psychological level. It helps you massage some kind of psychological knot you have inside.
877 posted on 06/18/2002 5:55:59 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: Allah
There is no reason why that creator should either care about what happens to individual humans, nor is there any reason that the creator should be omnipotent.

Says you.
878 posted on 06/18/2002 5:57:03 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: LadyDoc
There has so far been no adequate experiment devised to detect if God exists or not. On the other hand, things like beauty, absolute truth, and love cannot be proven scientifically to exist.

Quite true, there are many things which science cannot know of. Materialism is one of the silliest philosophies around, it denies the possibility of intelligence, logic, art, mathematics, geometry, conscience and much more - just about everything which makes humans human.

879 posted on 06/18/2002 5:57:52 AM PDT by gore3000
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To: Physicist
You know, you really aren't as intelligent as you try to appear. Explaining the obvious, that time itself came into existance at the big fat bang, isn't neccessary. You fail to explain why there can be no "before". The word before is not beholden to the passage of time in this universe. It may have no tangible application but the concept is still the same and for you to pretend otherwise is less than honest. You know exactly what people are speaking about, and you know damned good and well that they don't intend to imply that time as we experience it existed before the big fat bang.

I know you think you're a brilliant guy, as is evidenced by the fact that your nickname declares your supposed profession to the world, but I'm not impressed by your trickery. And here I thought you were one of the few people who wants to engage these topics honestly and intelligently. Oh well.
880 posted on 06/18/2002 6:02:18 AM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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