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15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense [THE FINAL DEBUNKING]
Scientific American ^ | 17 June 2002 | John Rennie

Posted on 06/17/2002 3:10:50 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

Opponents of evolution want to make a place for creationism by tearing down real science, but their arguments don't hold up

When Charles Darwin introduced the theory of evolution through natural selection 143 years ago, the scientists of the day argued over it fiercely, but the massing evidence from paleontology, genetics, zoology, molecular biology and other fields gradually established evolution's truth beyond reasonable doubt. Today that battle has been won everywhere--except in the public imagination.

Embarrassingly, in the 21st century, in the most scientifically advanced nation the world has ever known, creationists can still persuade politicians, judges and ordinary citizens that evolution is a flawed, poorly supported fantasy. They lobby for creationist ideas such as "intelligent design" to be taught as alternatives to evolution in science classrooms. As this article goes to press, the Ohio Board of Education is debating whether to mandate such a change. Some antievolutionists, such as Philip E. Johnson, a law professor at the University of California at Berkeley and author of Darwin on Trial, admit that they intend for intelligent-design theory to serve as a "wedge" for reopening science classrooms to discussions of God.

Besieged teachers and others may increasingly find themselves on the spot to defend evolution and refute creationism. The arguments that creationists use are typically specious and based on misunderstandings of (or outright lies about) evolution, but the number and diversity of the objections can put even well-informed people at a disadvantage.

To help with answering them, the following list rebuts some of the most common "scientific" arguments raised against evolution. It also directs readers to further sources for information and explains why creation science has no place in the classroom.

1. Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

2. Natural selection is based on circular reasoning: the fittest are those who survive, and those who survive are deemed fittest. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

3. Evolution is unscientific, because it is not testable or falsifiable. It makes claims about events that were not observed and can never be re-created. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

4. Increasingly, scientists doubt the truth of evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

5. The disagreements among even evolutionary biologists show how little solid science supports evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

6. If humans descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

7. Evolution cannot explain how life first appeared on earth. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

8. Mathematically, it is inconceivable that anything as complex as a protein, let alone a living cell or a human, could spring up by chance. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

9. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that systems must become more disordered over time. Living cells therefore could not have evolved from inanimate chemicals, and multicellular life could not have evolved from protozoa. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

10. Mutations are essential to evolution theory, but mutations can only eliminate traits. They cannot produce new features. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

11. Natural selection might explain microevolution, but it cannot explain the origin of new species and higher orders of life. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

12. Nobody has ever seen a new species evolve. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

13. Evolutionists cannot point to any transitional fossils--creatures that are half reptile and half bird, for instance. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

14. Living things have fantastically intricate features--at the anatomical, cellular and molecular levels--that could not function if they were any less complex or sophisticated. The only prudent conclusion is that they are the products of intelligent design, not evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

15. Recent discoveries prove that even at the microscopic level, life has a quality of complexity that could not have come about through evolution. [Rebuttal omitted to save space. See the original article.]

CONCLUSION
"Creation science" is a contradiction in terms. A central tenet of modern science is methodological naturalism--it seeks to explain the universe purely in terms of observed or testable natural mechanisms. Thus, physics describes the atomic nucleus with specific concepts governing matter and energy, and it tests those descriptions experimentally. Physicists introduce new particles, such as quarks, to flesh out their theories only when data show that the previous descriptions cannot adequately explain observed phenomena. The new particles do not have arbitrary properties, moreover--their definitions are tightly constrained, because the new particles must fit within the existing framework of physics.

In contrast, intelligent-design theorists invoke shadowy entities that conveniently have whatever unconstrained abilities are needed to solve the mystery at hand. Rather than expanding scientific inquiry, such answers shut it down. (How does one disprove the existence of omnipotent intelligences?)

Intelligent design offers few answers. For instance, when and how did a designing intelligence intervene in life's history? By creating the first DNA? The first cell? The first human? Was every species designed, or just a few early ones? Proponents of intelligent-design theory frequently decline to be pinned down on these points. They do not even make real attempts to reconcile their disparate ideas about intelligent design. Instead they pursue argument by exclusion--that is, they belittle evolutionary explanations as far-fetched or incomplete and then imply that only design-based alternatives remain.

Logically, this is misleading: even if one naturalistic explanation is flawed, it does not mean that all are. Moreover, it does not make one intelligent-design theory more reasonable than another. Listeners are essentially left to fill in the blanks for themselves, and some will undoubtedly do so by substituting their religious beliefs for scientific ideas.

Time and again, science has shown that methodological naturalism can push back ignorance, finding increasingly detailed and informative answers to mysteries that once seemed impenetrable: the nature of light, the causes of disease, how the brain works. Evolution is doing the same with the riddle of how the living world took shape. Creationism, by any name, adds nothing of intellectual value to the effort.

The Author(s):

John Rennie is editor in chief of Scientific American.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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To: JediGirl
Science deceives itself if it pretends the 5th dimension spiritual world of God doesn't exist because they can't bottle it. And please pardon some of us if we can "see" that HIS "proof" of 'Intelligent Design' is clearly and overwhelmingly evident...

In the meantime, I'll assume everything is A-ok up on the 'holodeck'?

441 posted on 06/17/2002 12:06:01 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: jlogajan
Science, on the other hand, is a method or system of applying rationality to real world observations. If you "believe" in science, it just means you believe in the evidence of your senses and your ability to think logically. If you don't "believe" in science, it means you think either that your senses are lying to you, that logic is meaningless, or that god is playing tricks on us all by sprinkling the world with false evidence, such as the fossil record. A twisted sense of humor, I guess.

Yes let us apply the Scientific Maethod to Evolution:

SCIENTIFIC PROBLEMS WITH MACROEVOLUTION:

1. OBSERVATION -steps of evolution have never been observed (Stebbins )

In the fossil record we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study.(Gould )

2. EXPERIMENTATION -The processes would exceed the lifetime of any human experimenter (Dobzhansky )

3. REPRODUCTION impossible to reproduce in the laboratory. (Dobshansky )

4. FALSIFICATION -cannot be refuted thus outside empirical science. (Ehrlich )

RESEARCH PROBLEMS WITH MACROEVOLUTION:

1. ORIGINS -the chance of life originating from inorganic chemical elements by natural means is beyond the realm of possibility (Hoyle )

2. DEVELOPMENT -to produce a new organism from an existing life-form requires alterations in the genetic material which are lethal to the organism (Maddox )

3. STASIS -enzymes in the cell nucleus repair errors in the DNA (Barton )

4. GEOLOGIC COLUMN -out-of-place artifacts have been found in earth's sedimentary layers which disrupt the supposed evolutionary order (Corliss )

5. DESIGN -irreducible complexity within the structure of the cell requires design (Denton, Behe ).

(DNA REPAIR: The genome is reproduced very faithfully and there are enzymes which repair the DNA, where errors have been made or when the DNA is damaged. - D.H.R. Barton, Professor of Chemistry, Texas A&M University, Nobel Prize for Chemistry )

(CHANGE WITHIN GENETIC BOUNDARIES: Microevolution does not lead beyond the confines of the species, and the typical products of microevolution, the geographic races, are not incipient species. There is no such category as incipient species. Richard B. Goldschmidt )

(MUTATION ACCUMULATIONS RELENTLESSLY FATAL: Any random change in a complex, specific, functioning system wrecks that system. And living things are the most complex functioning systems in the universe.Science has now quantitated that a genetic mutation of as little as 1 billionth (0.0000001%) of an animal's genome is relentlessly fatal.The genetic difference between human and his nearest relative, the chimpanzee, is at least 1.6% Calculated out that is a gap of at least 48 million nucleotide differences that must be bridged by random changes. And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal. Geneticist Barney Maddox, 1992 )

442 posted on 06/17/2002 12:11:41 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777
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To: Dimensio
And the Bible teaches that we are made in Flipper's image that Dolphin's may have "dominion" over the Earth's creatures?
443 posted on 06/17/2002 12:13:23 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: smith288
Prove to me they are made up.

[They therefore decided that one of them should confront God and inform Him that His "services are no longer needed."]

Is there some doubt this is a made up story????

444 posted on 06/17/2002 12:13:39 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Diamond
Creation is finished, and we were not there at the time to see it, so how could we see such a thing?

But the fossil record shows organisms in a distinct order of appearance; obviously God was zapping things into existence up until fairly recently. Why would he stop now? The Bible says He did it all in a couple of days, but the fossil record doesn't support that contention. Rather it says that life has been appearing and disappearing for quite a long time. God must pop in occassionally to zap new organism into existence (which is non-Biblical) to explain the fossil record -- either that or the scientists are onto something with evolution. And, there is evidence He must've been doing this up until fairly recently. Why would He have stopped?

445 posted on 06/17/2002 12:14:59 PM PDT by Junior
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To: F16Fighter
Science deceives itself if it pretends the 5th dimension spiritual world of God doesn't exist becausethey can't bottle it. And please pardon some of us if we can "see" that HIS "proof" of 'Intelligent Design' is clearly and overwhelmingly evident...

This is a classic. An absolute classic. Thank you.

446 posted on 06/17/2002 12:17:00 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: gore3000
Yes, the Darwinists have indeed retrogressed and dug the hole deeper in attempting to make any sense whatsoever out of their grab bag of "factoids" and "viable" theory. Even if we allow them ground-zero at the juncture where Bonzo is magically morphing into Cro-magnon.

Come to think of it, there in fact is MUCH more "proof" the human race is de-volving :-D as you've theorized...

447 posted on 06/17/2002 12:23:33 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: Physicist
Of course, I did nothing of the kind.
448 posted on 06/17/2002 12:25:01 PM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: general_re
You have my condolences. Look up the fallacy of special pleading sometime.

You need to read it first. Mentioning the fact of Ad Hominem is not pleading anything. You lost it after this point.

Yep, true to form Ad Hominem appears.

449 posted on 06/17/2002 12:25:18 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: ThinkPlease
What blinders? What orthodoxy?
450 posted on 06/17/2002 12:26:12 PM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: Junior
The geologic column in its final version consists of eleven basic layers. According to the evolutionary theory these layers were laid down over a period of millions of years. However, several problems arise when the geologic column is looked at through the theory of evolution. First, if the geologic column were to be compacted together, layer upon layer, its height would exceed 100 miles. This is a problem because one must consider the earth's crust is no greater than 30 miles thick and sedimenlary rocks are never found exceeding 15 miles in depth. The Grand Canyon also presents a problem to the evolutionary geologic column because several sedimentary layers, such as the Cenozoic and Mesozoic strata, are absent. Such absences directly correspond with the many observations that the theorized transitional species between virtually every major group of animals is also missing. Missing parts of the column are generally explained on the basis of erosion and mountain building. However, the absence of erosion marks and the distinct lines of separation between each of the successive layers is compelling evidence that the layers were laid down quickly through the action of transporting waters. Another problem in the evolulionary theory is the inconsistency in strata succession form old strata to young In over 500 locations globally the succession of strata is inverted and younger strata is found lying beneath older strata. Although evolution cannot be useful in explaining such phenomenon, the Flood theory can be a very valid explanation. Because certain species of invertebrates were light weight and easily transportable, various representatives of their species would sometimes be transported and deposited at different stages of the flood. The discovery of fossils and footprints in the geologic colmnn below levels in which they should be located is also a problem to the evolutionary geologic column. One of the most stunning evidences against the supposed vast ages of the earth and the geologic column is the presence of human footprints in layers dated older than the Quaternary Period. In addition to footprints, human fossils have also been found in areas of the geologic column which represent time periods supposedly millions of years prior to modern man. This argues quite favorably for the Creation model which states that all major life forms began at the same time and have reproduced after their own kind since the beginning. Finally, the discovery of polystrate fossil trees in coal seams is a major disruption in tile Evolutionary theory. According to evolution the formation of coal seams occurred over millions of years. However, the presence of fossilized trees in these coal beds indicate that they were formed very quickly since a tree could not survive for a million years while the surrounding vegetation solidified.

It is common knowledge among honest evolutionists today that Darwin's concept of gradualism via natural selection is no longer accepted in the realm of academia to explain the fossil record. Allow me to briefly exemplify by letting the following evolutionists speak for themselves:

[Stanley, Steven M., 'Macroevolution: Pattern and Process' (San Francisco: W.H. Freeman and Co., 1979), 332p.]
The known fossil record fails to document a single example of phyletic evolution accomplishing a major morphologic transition and hence offers no evidence that the gradualistic model can be valid. (p.39)

[Raup, David M., "Evolution and the Fossil Record," 'Science,' vol. 213 (July 17, 1981)]
So, the geological time scale and the basic facts of biological change over time are totally independent of evolution theory. (p.289)

[Ridley, Mark, "Who Doubts Evolution?" 'New Scientist,' vol.90 (June 25, 1981), pp.830-832. Ridley was in the Department of Zoology at Oxford University.]
In any case, no real evolutionist, whether gradualistic or punctuationist, uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of the theory of evolution as opposed to special creation....(p.831)

451 posted on 06/17/2002 12:26:55 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777
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To: F16Fighter
Did you ever watch the Simpsons episode where dolphins take over Springfield?
452 posted on 06/17/2002 12:27:14 PM PDT by smith288
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To: PatrickHenry
And congratulations to you for heading an entertaining series of comically desperate rebuttals from the Darwinian Institute of Swiss Cheese Logic.
453 posted on 06/17/2002 12:31:13 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: PatrickHenry
Why is it a classic? I think it's an interesting observation. While I can't speak for the truth of the assertion itself, it's worth noting that you mock anyone who asserts even the possibility that something might be beyond the grasp of almighty science.
454 posted on 06/17/2002 12:31:18 PM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: CyberCowboy777
MUTATION ACCUMULATIONS RELENTLESSLY FATAL

Ever notice the women walking around collecting money for the Mothers March of Dimes? Ever notice they're always collecting money for research to PREVENT mutations, and not to CAUSE them? Basically, in the real world, mutations all have names, like Downs syndrome, Tay-Sachs disease, Phoco-Loci, cri-du-chat syndrome etc. etc.

455 posted on 06/17/2002 12:31:24 PM PDT by medved
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To: PatrickHenry
Evolution, being science, requires no faith at all, just observation of data and the application of reason.

420 posted on 6/17/02 11:09 AM Pacific by PatrickHenry

Evolution, being the opposite of science, requires no faith---intelligence at all, just fabrication--observation of non-exzistant data and the application of made up/rationalization-reason.

456 posted on 06/17/2002 12:31:35 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: smith288
Missed that one Smitty....
457 posted on 06/17/2002 12:32:21 PM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: Junior
Actually "God" did "stop now", since no new phyla have emerged in 580 million years, after the Cambrian Explosion which still gives you Darwinists fits. Hell, even Gould was honest enough to propose a new variation of evolutionary theory to deal with it. Most of you go on pretending everything is well with the world.
458 posted on 06/17/2002 12:33:17 PM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: f.Christian
I have to say that I am embarrased and ashamed to have someone like you speaking on the side of those who find problems with current Darwinian theory. Please stop posting on these threads.
459 posted on 06/17/2002 12:34:30 PM PDT by That Subliminal Kid
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To: medved
Difference is between falling systems and Mutations of Genome.

Science has now quantitated that a genetic mutation of as little as 1 billionth (0.0000001%) of an animal's genome is relentlessly fatal.The genetic difference between human and his nearest relative, the chimpanzee, is at least 1.6% Calculated out that is a gap of at least 48 million nucleotide differences that must be bridged by random changes. And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal. Geneticist Barney Maddox, 1992 )

460 posted on 06/17/2002 12:37:20 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777
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