15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense [THE FINAL DEBUNKING]

Scientific American ^ | 17 June 2002 | John Rennie

[F16Fighter]

Science deceives itself if it pretends the 5th dimension spiritual world of God doesn't exist because they can't bottle it. And please pardon some of us if we can "see" that HIS "proof" of 'Intelligent Design' is clearly and overwhelmingly evident...

In the meantime, I'll assume everything is A-ok up on the 'holodeck'?

[CyberCowboy777]

Science, on the other hand, is a method or system of applying rationality to real world observations. If you "believe" in science, it just means you believe in the evidence of your senses and your ability to think logically. If you don't "believe" in science, it means you think either that your senses are lying to you, that logic is meaningless, or that god is playing tricks on us all by sprinkling the world with false evidence, such as the fossil record. A twisted sense of humor, I guess.

Yes let us apply the Scientific Maethod to Evolution:

SCIENTIFIC PROBLEMS WITH MACROEVOLUTION:

1. OBSERVATION -steps of evolution have never been observed (Stebbins )

In the fossil record we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study.(Gould )

2. EXPERIMENTATION -The processes would exceed the lifetime of any human experimenter (Dobzhansky )

3. REPRODUCTION impossible to reproduce in the laboratory. (Dobshansky )

4. FALSIFICATION -cannot be refuted thus outside empirical science. (Ehrlich )

RESEARCH PROBLEMS WITH MACROEVOLUTION:

1. ORIGINS -the chance of life originating from inorganic chemical elements by natural means is beyond the realm of possibility (Hoyle )

2. DEVELOPMENT -to produce a new organism from an existing life-form requires alterations in the genetic material which are lethal to the organism (Maddox )

3. STASIS -enzymes in the cell nucleus repair errors in the DNA (Barton )

4. GEOLOGIC COLUMN -out-of-place artifacts have been found in earth's sedimentary layers which disrupt the supposed evolutionary order (Corliss )

5. DESIGN -irreducible complexity within the structure of the cell requires design (Denton, Behe ).

(DNA REPAIR: The genome is reproduced very faithfully and there are enzymes which repair the DNA, where errors have been made or when the DNA is damaged. - D.H.R. Barton, Professor of Chemistry, Texas A&M University, Nobel Prize for Chemistry )

(CHANGE WITHIN GENETIC BOUNDARIES: Microevolution does not lead beyond the confines of the species, and the typical products of microevolution, the geographic races, are not incipient species. There is no such category as incipient species. Richard B. Goldschmidt )

(MUTATION ACCUMULATIONS RELENTLESSLY FATAL: Any random change in a complex, specific, functioning system wrecks that system. And living things are the most complex functioning systems in the universe.Science has now quantitated that a genetic mutation of as little as 1 billionth (0.0000001%) of an animal's genome is relentlessly fatal.The genetic difference between human and his nearest relative, the chimpanzee, is at least 1.6% Calculated out that is a gap of at least 48 million nucleotide differences that must be bridged by random changes. And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal. Geneticist Barney Maddox, 1992 )

[F16Fighter]

And the Bible teaches that we are made in Flipper's image that Dolphin's may have "dominion" over the Earth's creatures?

[jlogajan]

Prove to me they are made up.

[They therefore decided that one of them should confront God and inform Him that His "services are no longer needed."]

Is there some doubt this is a made up story????

[Junior]

Creation is finished, and we were not there at the time to see it, so how could we see such a thing?

But the fossil record shows organisms in a distinct order of appearance; obviously God was zapping things into existence up until fairly recently. Why would he stop now? The Bible says He did it all in a couple of days, but the fossil record doesn't support that contention. Rather it says that life has been appearing and disappearing for quite a long time. God must pop in occassionally to zap new organism into existence (which is non-Biblical) to explain the fossil record -- either that or the scientists are onto something with evolution. And, there is evidence He must've been doing this up until fairly recently. Why would He have stopped?

[PatrickHenry]

Science deceives itself if it pretends the 5th dimension spiritual world of God doesn't exist becausethey can't bottle it. And please pardon some of us if we can "see" that HIS "proof" of 'Intelligent Design' is clearly and overwhelmingly evident...

This is a classic. An absolute classic. Thank you.

[F16Fighter]

Yes, the Darwinists have indeed retrogressed and dug the hole deeper in attempting to make any sense whatsoever out of their grab bag of "factoids" and "viable" theory. Even if we allow them ground-zero at the juncture where Bonzo is magically morphing into Cro-magnon.

Come to think of it, there in fact is MUCH more "proof" the human race is de-volving :-D as you've theorized...

[That Subliminal Kid]

Of course, I did nothing of the kind.

[AndrewC]

You have my condolences. Look up the fallacy of special pleading sometime.

You need to read it first. Mentioning the fact of Ad Hominem is not pleading anything. You lost it after this point.

Yep, true to form Ad Hominem appears.

[That Subliminal Kid]

What blinders? What orthodoxy?

[CyberCowboy777]

The geologic column in its final version consists of eleven basic layers. According to the evolutionary theory these layers were laid down over a period of millions of years. However, several problems arise when the geologic column is looked at through the theory of evolution. First, if the geologic column were to be compacted together, layer upon layer, its height would exceed 100 miles. This is a problem because one must consider the earth's crust is no greater than 30 miles thick and sedimenlary rocks are never found exceeding 15 miles in depth. The Grand Canyon also presents a problem to the evolutionary geologic column because several sedimentary layers, such as the Cenozoic and Mesozoic strata, are absent. Such absences directly correspond with the many observations that the theorized transitional species between virtually every major group of animals is also missing. Missing parts of the column are generally explained on the basis of erosion and mountain building. However, the absence of erosion marks and the distinct lines of separation between each of the successive layers is compelling evidence that the layers were laid down quickly through the action of transporting waters. Another problem in the evolulionary theory is the inconsistency in strata succession form old strata to young In over 500 locations globally the succession of strata is inverted and younger strata is found lying beneath older strata. Although evolution cannot be useful in explaining such phenomenon, the Flood theory can be a very valid explanation. Because certain species of invertebrates were light weight and easily transportable, various representatives of their species would sometimes be transported and deposited at different stages of the flood. The discovery of fossils and footprints in the geologic colmnn below levels in which they should be located is also a problem to the evolutionary geologic column. One of the most stunning evidences against the supposed vast ages of the earth and the geologic column is the presence of human footprints in layers dated older than the Quaternary Period. In addition to footprints, human fossils have also been found in areas of the geologic column which represent time periods supposedly millions of years prior to modern man. This argues quite favorably for the Creation model which states that all major life forms began at the same time and have reproduced after their own kind since the beginning. Finally, the discovery of polystrate fossil trees in coal seams is a major disruption in tile Evolutionary theory. According to evolution the formation of coal seams occurred over millions of years. However, the presence of fossilized trees in these coal beds indicate that they were formed very quickly since a tree could not survive for a million years while the surrounding vegetation solidified.

It is common knowledge among honest evolutionists today that Darwin's concept of gradualism via natural selection is no longer accepted in the realm of academia to explain the fossil record. Allow me to briefly exemplify by letting the following evolutionists speak for themselves:

[Stanley, Steven M., 'Macroevolution: Pattern and Process' (San Francisco: W.H. Freeman and Co., 1979), 332p.]
The known fossil record fails to document a single example of phyletic evolution accomplishing a major morphologic transition and hence offers no evidence that the gradualistic model can be valid. (p.39)

[Raup, David M., "Evolution and the Fossil Record," 'Science,' vol. 213 (July 17, 1981)]
So, the geological time scale and the basic facts of biological change over time are totally independent of evolution theory. (p.289)

[Ridley, Mark, "Who Doubts Evolution?" 'New Scientist,' vol.90 (June 25, 1981), pp.830-832. Ridley was in the Department of Zoology at Oxford University.]
In any case, no real evolutionist, whether gradualistic or punctuationist, uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of the theory of evolution as opposed to special creation....(p.831)

[smith288]

Did you ever watch the Simpsons episode where dolphins take over Springfield?

[F16Fighter]

And congratulations to you for heading an entertaining series of comically desperate rebuttals from the Darwinian Institute of Swiss Cheese Logic.

[That Subliminal Kid]

Why is it a classic? I think it's an interesting observation. While I can't speak for the truth of the assertion itself, it's worth noting that you mock anyone who asserts even the possibility that something might be beyond the grasp of almighty science.

[medved]

MUTATION ACCUMULATIONS RELENTLESSLY FATAL

Ever notice the women walking around collecting money for the Mothers March of Dimes? Ever notice they're always collecting money for research to PREVENT mutations, and not to CAUSE them? Basically, in the real world, mutations all have names, like Downs syndrome, Tay-Sachs disease, Phoco-Loci, cri-du-chat syndrome etc. etc.

[f.Christian]

Evolution, being science, requires no faith at all, just observation of data and the application of reason.

420 posted on 6/17/02 11:09 AM Pacific by PatrickHenry

Evolution, being the opposite of science, requires no faith---intelligence at all, just fabrication--observation of non-exzistant data and the application of made up/rationalization-reason.

[F16Fighter]

Missed that one Smitty....

[That Subliminal Kid]

Actually "God" did "stop now", since no new phyla have emerged in 580 million years, after the Cambrian Explosion which still gives you Darwinists fits. Hell, even Gould was honest enough to propose a new variation of evolutionary theory to deal with it. Most of you go on pretending everything is well with the world.

[That Subliminal Kid]

I have to say that I am embarrased and ashamed to have someone like you speaking on the side of those who find problems with current Darwinian theory. Please stop posting on these threads.

[CyberCowboy777]

Difference is between falling systems and Mutations of Genome.

Science has now quantitated that a genetic mutation of as little as 1 billionth (0.0000001%) of an animal's genome is relentlessly fatal.The genetic difference between human and his nearest relative, the chimpanzee, is at least 1.6% Calculated out that is a gap of at least 48 million nucleotide differences that must be bridged by random changes. And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal. Geneticist Barney Maddox, 1992 )