Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Lol, I love it, I printed the article off for Ginny, we thought we were the only ones to figure this out. hehehehe
JH :-)
You are still fighting against a caricature.
When you come out that strong, I know I hit a truth cord.
Now please tell me then, if we both are accomplishing the same works and overcoming the same things, what is the difference if you do it out af fear as you do, or if we do the same things out of love because He already saved us?
JH :-)
The Protestant idea that we play no part whatsoever in our day-to-day activities and choices just doesn't seem realistic to us.
You sidestepped this one. I claim you made it up. It simply isn't true.
No, it is apparent that you do not reflect upon what we tell you. Yesterday I said:
Therefore, anything we do of merit is the result of God and us working together. For sure we are the infinitely junior partner, but we do have to give God reign over our will. That is our contribution to the partnership and it is not a trivial thing.
That you can see statements like this and yet still ask questions of Catholics about how we want to do everything "on our own" defies description.
SD
When these letters were written the "dioceses" were just taking form but the warnings were for those that had come together,taught by one of the "apostles",or sent by an "apostle" to work out how to achieve the great commission,"to baptize in the name of the Father,Son and Holy Ghost and teach all nations what He had taught them".
One of the teachings that was to be passed on once the door was opened to all was that Jesus was "the Way,the Truth and the Life" and man had to accept that in order to benefit from the salvation which was offered to all.In todays language that might be the cost of oppurtunity.To "overcome" one needed to believe that He was the Way,the Truth and the Life".So one needs to start around the time Jesus's public ministry started,about the time He "overcame"the temptations of the world,the flesh and the devil.
I always thought that the salvation offered was the opening of the door to "eternal life" which had been closed to all but the "chosen" until He came.
"For us men and for our salvation,He came down from heaven,and by the power of the Holy Spirit,He was born of the Virgin Mary,and became man".
So it looks to me like salvation is a open to all but "eternal life" is contingent on our cooperation with the grace God gratuitiously showers on us. The warnings to the churches were pointing out the areas where the temptations of the secular world were inhibiting both individuals and the "body of believers" to "overcome".
Today the Pope could write similar letters to bishops of dioceses who are failing to "overcome" and list the areas of weaknesses and strengths.God in His mercy sent His Son to open the door for all,which He did by establishing a Church.Man,who by his nature wants to name good and evil and yet attain heaven,from the get-go,disobeyed by failing to "overcome" the seduction of the serpent. Twas ever thus,for most.
Swisher Sweets? :-)
You sidestepped this one. I claim you made it up. It simply isn't true.
Exhibit A, from Jim in 52599:
I didn't struggle with my will power, or summon my inner strength, or beat my chest, God healed me and I walked away from smoking with no more then a few dreams that I was smoking again.
SD
That you can see statements like this and yet still ask questions of Catholics about how we want to do everything "on our own" defies description.
Could it be because everything you say is in such a way that you can redefine it at the drop of a hat.
If I quote any part of your statement and attack it with scripture, you immediately change the meaning of what you said to what you now mean it to say.
So your right, until I see you say the same thing over and over, and defend it several times, I don't pay a lot of attention to it.
Lets say someone walks up to us and gives each of us a brand new car and keys, and says something, and leaves.
I thought I heard him say the car is a free gift from someone who loves me, and he will not accept any money for it, but If I really appreciate it, I’ll take good care of it, and show love to my neighbor and be a good example.
You said no way, that's not what he said. I heard him say that the car has to be paid for, and he'll do part of the payments with me.
What I can't come up with, he'll pay the difference, but if I don't contribute my fair share, he'll have the car impounded, and I'll loose everything I invested into it.
I think I heard him correctly.
JH :-)
Two years isn't long enough?
I thought I heard him say the car is a free gift from someone who loves me, and he will not accept any money for it, but If I really appreciate it, I’ll take good care of it, and show love to my neighbor and be a good example.
If it was a free gift, you could set it on fire and drive it into a swamp.
But if you do that, then the gift was not authentic. No, you must accept the conditions when you accept the gift. There's no two ways around it.
SD
SD - The Protestant idea that we play no part whatsoever in our day-to-day activities and choices just doesn't seem realistic to us.
OR - You sidestepped this one. I claim you made it up. It simply isn't true.
SD - Exhibit A, from Jim in 52599:
JH - I didn't struggle with my will power, or summon my inner strength, or beat my chest, God healed me and I walked away from smoking with no more then a few dreams that I was smoking again.
You missed that he said that he prayed to God to give him strength ?
(Reg) You sidestepped this one. I claim you made it up. It simply isn't true.
Exhibit A, from Jim in 52599:
I didn't struggle with my will power, or summon my inner strength, or beat my chest, God healed me and I walked away from smoking with no more then a few dreams that I was smoking again.
Though you claim to be the Catholic spokesman, I have never seen Jim claim he is the Protestant voice.
My claim stands. You made it up.
Catholics worship Mary!
Interesting. Good point, if I am understanding you correctly.
SD
SD
If it was a free gift, you could set it on fire and drive it into a swamp.
That's what unbelievers do.Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:But if you do that, then the gift was not authentic. No, you must accept the conditions when you accept the gift. There's no two ways around it.
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Nothing that we can do mke God's gift inauthentic. It is a gift by virtue of God's offer, rather than by our acceptance.
Beyond God's guarantee of eternal life, those of us who have accepted this great gift of God will benefit to to the extent that we follow the instructions which come with it.
That's what unbelievers do.
Precisely. But the notion is that the gift was given because of one's belief, right? God doesn't grant unbelievers eternal life, right?
Others would have us believe that the gift comes with no conditions, and yet they admit that they do indeed need to follow through with the conditions anyway. And that if they don't, the gift is a mirage.
SD
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.