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Therefore, anything we do of merit is the result of God and us working together. For sure we are the infinitely junior partner, but we do have to give God reign over our will. That is our contribution to the partnership and it is not a trivial thing.

That you can see statements like this and yet still ask questions of Catholics about how we want to do everything "on our own" defies description.

Could it be because everything you say is in such a way that you can redefine it at the drop of a hat.

If I quote any part of your statement and attack it with scripture, you immediately change the meaning of what you said to what you now mean it to say.

So your right, until I see you say the same thing over and over, and defend it several times, I don't pay a lot of attention to it.

Lets say someone walks up to us and gives each of us a brand new car and keys, and says something, and leaves.

You said no way, that's not what he said. I heard him say that the car has to be paid for, and he'll do part of the payments with me.
What I can't come up with, he'll pay the difference, but if I don't contribute my fair share, he'll have the car impounded, and I'll loose everything I invested into it.

I think I heard him correctly.

JH :-)

So your right, until I see you say the same thing over and over, and defend it several times, I don't pay a lot of attention to it.

Two years isn't long enough?

If it was a free gift, you could set it on fire and drive it into a swamp.

But if you do that, then the gift was not authentic. No, you must accept the conditions when you accept the gift. There's no two ways around it.

JH,I appreciate the time you take to respond,the research you do,the way you express yourself and the interesting take you have on so many things of God.You have said many things which many of us agree with;however,I have read all of the posts that followed my original question which was directed to you,ventana,Cindy Dawg and Robbys.I have addressed this to all except inpricipio and perhaps Xenia(who I answered on another post).I cannot remember the correct spelling of either of their screen names.There is no point in responding post by post,so I am sending off a kind of "one size fits all" comment.

First it seems to me there are many problems that have their genesis in the definition of words. Particularly with salvation,rewards,crowns,justification,faith,belief and church.So at times I think everyone is on the same page and then I find we are not.

Rather than try to do what others have done with more scripture and clearer explanation,my position is that Ventana,Soothing Dave,RobbyS.,and II have it all right with regards almost all sequence,definitions and consequences.The rest of you agree on some things and differ on others and create quite a confusing conglomeration of what you claim is simple.

This splintering,fragmenting and the bickering that ensued,to me was one of the reasons Jesus entered time when He did;the Israelites,worshipping at the temple were losing the message and their identity.

Jesus came to find the lost tribes and simply opened the door for everyone to attain "Life Everlasting" and go home to the Father. He provided a means to offer this oppurtunity to all,which was predicated on their believing in Him,that He was the "WAY,TRUTH and LIFE".

Jesus prayed to the Father that all might be one as He and the Father were One,in the unity of the Holy Spirit.This is why the Church was established with a Vicar to be visible and audible to the Faithful to Christ. This is why there is a terrible attack on the Church right now from both within and without. At least those of you without don't pretend to be CAtholic,you are not hypocrites. Inside,there are many who posture and claim they are Catholic but are not;they lie. I believe that the most important thing Catholics can be doing right now is exposing those who say they are what they are not.I wish we had more help from those that who are united with us in Christ but just cannot see that the continuation of Western Civilization and Christianity hangs on the fate of the Catholic Church.

The one world order that you all recognize as something to be feared,is dependent on the destruction of the Catholic Church,if that goes no individual or entity can stop it. Of course God could intervene but He gives us every chance to do His will on earth and enjoy "Life Everlasting" with each other eternally.

For those of you who think we are in the end times,I can only say, even Christ did not know,only the Father knows. but I can say that I think God just may have another plan and that is,He is going to keep mankind around until they "catch on",no easy way out.

I thought I heard him say the car is a free gift from someone who loves me, and he will not accept any money for it, but If I really appreciate it, I’ll take good care of it, and show love to my neighbor and be a good example. You said no way, that's not what he said. I heard him say that the car has to be paid for, and he'll do part of the payments with me.
What I can't come up with, he'll pay the difference, but if I don't contribute my fair share, he'll have the car impounded, and I'll loose everything I invested into it.

Ah...but the person who recieves the car could:

A: Accept it and never drive it.
B: Reject it and give it away.
C: Accept it, misuse and abuse it until it dies.

I think the "works" part of it would be taking care of it, washing it, gassing it up, etc.

Maybe this is what Dave is saying?