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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)
Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: CindyDawg
I feel so cheap now.
51,601 posted on 05/05/2003 8:12:28 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
I could have had it if I wanted it. Baby stuff. I'm waiting for the 1000. :')
51,602 posted on 05/05/2003 8:14:56 PM PDT by CindyDawg (I cheated. I used the web to find this. long day :'))
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To: CindyDawg
I could have had it if I wanted it. Baby stuff. I'm waiting for the 1000. :')

Yeah yeah I know. I had to get it out of my system though. :-)

51,603 posted on 05/05/2003 8:21:35 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: malakhi
I ain't gonna sugar coat it for you, you deny that Jesus is God, and according to the New Teatament you don't make it to heaven. I wish it wasn't so for your sake, but it is.

BigMack
51,604 posted on 05/05/2003 8:29:36 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: ventana; RobbyS
I can not say with assurance what believing in something that is not true can do to you, it may have very positive effects for some but in others it may lead to complacency. The devil never rests. For those that teach OSAS, however, should they cause some to not attain, there may be unforseen negative consequences

I can relate to these feelings, that's how we feel when we see RC's, wasting time doing all those man made rituals and traditions that have no biblical support, when you could be spending quality time directly with God.

What I find as ironical, you have no biblical support for any of the traditions you put so much emphasis in that I mentioned, but you have no problem using the scripture when you think you have one that questions or disproves something we believe in. hummmmm

I doubt seriously that if it weren’t for us NC’s asking for scriptural support for what you believe, you fellas would never open a Bible to actually see what it says.

God does work in mysterious ways doesn’t He. Lol

I believe God puts us all where we’ll work best, and he leads us to doctrine that suites our personality the best, and will help us grow spiritually. You are where you function best, since you were programmed as a youth to fit into that atmosphere.

I would probably die spiritually in your Church, as so might you in mine, but since God only sees the inner man, and not the outward appearance, I’m sure that the large percentage of what you do in your Church that doesn’t come from the heart, God doesn’t see any way.

He doesn’t see you kneel, or genuflect, or cross your self etc.. Unless He hears your inner being, your essence, your inside man, your heart, involved in what your doing, they mean nothing to God.

I can’t believe a rote prayer is coming from the inner parts of most RC’s, but its from your memory which is no more then reading thoughts, and not thinking them creatively or sincerely.

It’s like typing, there is no inner awareness involved, no sincerity, unless it comes from your heart, through your brain, and then your outward thought or words, otherwise its no more then vain, thoughtless janglings. IMO

JH :-)

51,605 posted on 05/05/2003 9:05:59 PM PDT by JHavard (Thanks to the NC's, Catholics have begun to open their Bibles and to read. :-)----)
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To: JHavard
I can relate to these feelings, that's how we feel when we see RC's, wasting time doing all those man made rituals and traditions that have no biblical support, when you could be spending quality time directly with God.>

I'd be curious to learn what it is exactly that you DO! when you "spend quality time directly with God." When I see Protestants worship, they are usually vocalizing and almost always at length in highly ritualized language.. Are you thinking of something like the old Quaker mode of worship, without ministers and sitting in silence? Thomas Merton in his Seven Story Mountain. described his visit to a Quaker congrehation when he was "shopping around: for a faith. He said he enjoyed the silence, and felt it was great--until someone felt moved by the spirit and got up to speak and he began to talks,,,and talk,,,and talk! .

i simply simply don't KNOW of any NC mode of worship that is any way more direct than spending an hour before the Blessed Sacrament without prayer book or beads. Reading the Bible privately and prayerfully comes close. I suppose I must give due notice to "speaking in tingues" or ecstatic motion, although as Paul pointed out, these require an interpreter.

51,606 posted on 05/05/2003 10:01:18 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: JHavard
I never saw this coming LOL What I find as ironical, you have no biblical support for any of the traditions you put so much emphasis in that I mentioned, but you have no problem using the scripture when you think you have one that questions or disproves something we believe in. hummmmm

The difference is that the elements of our faith that you mention are not flat out denied by Scripture, we simply disagree in interpretation.

That is clearly not the case in the conversation we were having before you got so defensive. If you want to turn this conversation from an honest examination of your doctrinal error into an ad hominum attack based on an unknowable assertion (the sincerity and efficacy of the faith lives of Catholics you have never met), have at it.

Is this tactical shift because you do not want to examine your doctrine anymore? Because if you can't refute the Scripture I showed to you, you might be forced to re-examine your beliefs? I should think you would welcome the opportunity to align your faith with Scripture. Its just a part of running the race.

v.

51,607 posted on 05/06/2003 3:42:32 AM PDT by ventana
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To: JHavard
since you were programmed as a youth to fit into that atmosphere.

As I have stated before, I converted.

A long term, unformed, Bible reading Christian, the Scriptures were opened to me, and I believed.

v.

51,608 posted on 05/06/2003 4:22:01 AM PDT by ventana
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To: Havoc
2001 xl1200c Sportster. New, no miles. Blue and silver. Nice; but, it didn't work out. Looks like I'll be waiting till my lawyer gets done with 'em.

Sweeeeeet!

I hope it all works out for you. But be careful out there if you do get it.

51,609 posted on 05/06/2003 5:48:57 AM PDT by al_c
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To: tHe AnTiLiB; Sass; OxfordMovement; NWU Army ROTC; KnutKase; SoothingDave; Havoc; the808bass; ...
Disclaimer: If you want on or off of this ping list, FReepmail me.

Heh heh ... I love the quote from St. Francis de Sales today. Very fitting for this thread. ;o)

Tuesday, May 06,  2003
Easter Weekday
First Reading:
Responsorial Psalm:
Gospel:
Acts 7:51 - 8:1
Psalm 31:3-4, 6-8, 17, 21
John 6:30-35

Take heed not to foster thy own judgment, for, without doubt, it will inebriate thee; as there is no difference between an intoxicated man and one full of his own opinion, and one is no more capable of reasoning than the other.

 -- St. Francis de Sales 

The following is, as usual, from The Word Among Us:

I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry. (John 6:35)

Jesus, so many in the world today hunger for the bread of love. All they know are false loves that neither satisfy nor fill the heart. All they know are attachments to objects or philosophies or themselves--not to you, the source of all love and beauty. Lord, let the bread of your love come into their hearts and satisfy their deepest hunger.

Jesus, so many hunger for the bread of truth. All over the world, your people are being bombarded by media hype, false ideologies, and lies from the evil one. Jesus, you are the way, the truth, and the life. Your word is truth. Feed people today with the bread of your truth.

Jesus, so many people today are lonely, hungering for the bread of community. So many live in suspicion, cynicism, or fear of commitment to one another. Yet in the church, you formed a community of disciples on the foundation of your love. Guide those who are lonely to find friends, companions, and families that offer the gift of fellowship. Break down walls of fear and isolation so that they will reach out to receive your presence in new brothers and sisters in faith.

Jesus, more and more people today hunger for hope. Some live day to day without a vision for their lives, without any goals beyond taking care of their own needs and wants. Others are near despair, unable to see meaning or purpose for their lives. Let them know that you are the answer. Strengthen them inwardly to carry on and reach the goal you have prepared for them--nothing less than a seat at your banquet table. Lord, rain down the bread of hope.

Jesus, millions are literally hungering for food. Starvation and famine afflict people on every continent, even in our own backyard. Lord, move your people to feed the hungry and to work for a world in which everyone has enough to eat.

Finally, Jesus, millions today hunger for the bread of life. Lord, open their hearts to see your presence in your precious gift of the Eucharist. Lead them to your table, Lord, so that they may satisfy their hunger for the bread of life--you, yourself, Lord.

"Lord, give us this, our daily bread, today and always."

----------

God bless.

AC


51,610 posted on 05/06/2003 5:56:44 AM PDT by al_c
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To: drstevej; malakhi
YEP> love/charity is doing what is best for another person. Giving a $5 to an alcoholic may be well intentioned but the effect may not be loving.

Sometimes charity comes in the form of anthemas, too. :-)

SD

51,611 posted on 05/06/2003 6:16:42 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Quester; malakhi
Perhaps to instill in us the understanding of the utter dreadfulness of sin. If death were not required to atone for sin, would we regard it (sin) so seriously ? If one of your children were to merely receive forgiveness (aside from any punishment) when they misbehaved, ... would they regard their misbehaviour as such a serious issue ?

Good point. One could also point out that the example of Jesus shows us that suffering, itself, is redemptive. Our suffering is not without meaning, but is rather a way that we are redeemed.

SD

51,612 posted on 05/06/2003 6:19:19 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: JHavard
Other then us not having to worry about not being in God’s kingdom, what do we who have eternal security fail to do, that you who have no idea what will happen at judgment day have to do?

Um, you fail to tell the truth, for one. Your dogma is erroneous.

Besides that, as has been noted, the consequences of your dogma on others is not thought through. Though you realize the "true meaning" of the idea, there will be others who fall away because of these ideas.

SD

51,613 posted on 05/06/2003 6:22:15 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
One could also point out that the example of Jesus shows us that suffering, itself, is redemptive. Our suffering is not without meaning, but is rather a way that we are redeemed

????....Can you elaborate on these two thoughts?

Becky

51,614 posted on 05/06/2003 6:22:30 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: SoothingDave
***Sometimes charity comes in the form of anthemas, too. :-)***

I keep telling my FR-5th friends that when they tell me about the two personages who appeared to their leader and told him that all creeds of his day were an abomination.

:0)

I call it charity, they call it bashing.... Go figure.
51,615 posted on 05/06/2003 6:24:04 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: DouglasKC
I'm not making the case that gambling in and of itself is wrong...I'm making the case that gambling for monetary gain is wrong whether you can afford to lose it or not.

I simply don't see this as an absolute as you do. Not all attempts to curry monetary advantage (even through "chance") are, by definition, "greed" or "coveting."

SD

51,616 posted on 05/06/2003 6:24:47 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: malakhi
This does not mean that there will always be a king in Israel (obviously). If the nation is disobedient, there will be no king or kingdom. But, this does not mean that God would put someone else on the throne other than one of Solomon's descendants. They will be "chastened", but, unlike Saul, this line will not lose the right to kingship.

By the way, this line lost kingship after being carried away into Babylon.

51,617 posted on 05/06/2003 6:25:14 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant (Hows my posting? Call 1-800-Matthew 1:24 & 25.)
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To: SoothingDave
But this can be said of your beliefs also. There are catholics who worship Mary, there are catholics who believe the sacraments themselves are works that save even when done by rote. There will always be those who don't get it, either from ignorance or by desire.

Becky
51,618 posted on 05/06/2003 6:25:47 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: DouglasKC
What a crowd. I only have one question for y'all. Would you begrudge the Church if it took an equal amount of money from the proceeds of the man's life insurance?

I would say that taking life insurance out for yourself is never a matter of personal greed or covetness because if you "win" you don't get the money anyways.

Au contraire. Life insurance is nothing but a gamble. The company gambles that you will live long enough to pay premiums to make the final payment easy for them. You are gambling that your monthly premium will pay off more than some other investment will.

That you are dead when you collect doesn't really have a bearing on it. Your beneficiaries still receive the money. You "covet" it for the use of your family.

SD

51,619 posted on 05/06/2003 6:27:12 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: malakhi
There would have been no need to specify, otherwise. All Israelites were prohibited from intermarriage with non-Israelites.

Not according to Ezekiel 44:21-22.

21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court. 22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.

51,620 posted on 05/06/2003 6:27:45 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant (Hows my posting? Call 1-800-Matthew 1:24 & 25.)
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