Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
It looks like his nose is bent out of shape.
SD
And there is the flaw in your reasoning. The rain falls upon the just and the unjust. Giving charity to someone who is poor through bad luck or circumstances is not the same as giving a fiver to the drunk who is just going to use it to buy more booze. It is charity to help the innocent poor. It is likewise charity to hold the "guilty" poor responsible for their own behavior.
If you consider sin as creating a "debt" with God, then God pays our debt Himself.
Still, I prefer the image of sacrifice as a symbol of reconciliation with God to one of placating an angry God.
It's not a question of anger, just that justice requires debts to be paid.
The Crucifixion allows suffering, of which the world is full, to finally have some meaning. Or, if not that far, at least we can understand that suffering is something that even God did not excuse Himself from. Had God simply erased the debt rather than paying it, we would have a very different message put out.
SD
In the face of our repentance, God could simply say "I forgive you".
I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD";
then thou didst forgive the guilt of my sin. (Psalm 32:5)
Why the need for Jesus to die for this to happen?
But do you believe everything He taught?
We're not all universalists, ya know? This charitable act will not benefit all. It's for the elect. (Did I just say that?)
SD
Why the need for Jesus to die for this to happen?
Well, it gives us something to talk about, doesn't it? It's a very dramatic gesture, full of nuance and interpretation. It is such a beautiful tapestry, a fitting denouement to the entire history of salvation.
None of which is strictly necessary, but was what God chose to do.
SD
I judge you not. He's in the process now of restoring the two houses of Israel (Ephraim & Judah). In that day when they are restored in full Messiah Yeshua will reveal himself to the house of Judah as well.
A tough question, considering my belief that we don't have an uncorrupted text of his teachings. Can you give me an example?
It was predestined. ;o)
I disagree. Even if the innocent is willing, it is unjust to punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. That, in my opinion, is the significance of the verse in question. Let me ask you -- how do you reconcile Ezekiel 18:20 with your beliefs about the sacrificial death of Jesus?
But isn't that the essense of the sacrificial system which God commanded for the Israelites ? If death (whether of the guilty of a sacrifice) is not required, what is God doing with the Israelites in the Old Testament ?
So that the angel of death would pass by our house, and we might be delivered alive out of Egypt.
You were joking a bit about Jesus as the Door a while back.
Compare: The blood of the lamb on the branch of Hysop wiped on the doorjambs in the first Passover with the Centurion holding up the Hysop with the wine(blood) for Jesus(door) to drink.
v.
In the face of our repentance, God could simply say "I forgive you".I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD"; then thou didst forgive the guilt of my sin. (Psalm 32:5)Why the need for Jesus to die for this to happen?
Perhaps to instill in us the understanding of the utter dreadfulness of sin. If death were not required to atone for sin, would we regard it (sin) so seriously ?
If one of your children were to merely receive forgiveness (aside from any punishment) when they misbehaved, ... would they regard their misbehaviour as such a serious issue ?
Also, ... isn't death not merely the penalty for sin, ... but, ultimately, ... the ultimate consequence of sin, ... whether God acts to punish or not ?
Was it not merely one generation from the fall that sin led to death (of Abel) ?
Does anyone doubt that, except we be stayed by some strong hand, ... we would have, ... or ultimately will ... utterly destroy ourselves along with the remainder of God's earthly creation ?
Are you making light of the word "endureth"?
No. Why are you asking that?
Are you interpreting this as an absoloute?
This?
for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life,
Yes. I consider the final judgement to be absolute.
v.
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