I can relate to these feelings, that's how we feel when we see RC's, wasting time doing all those man made rituals and traditions that have no biblical support, when you could be spending quality time directly with God.
What I find as ironical, you have no biblical support for any of the traditions you put so much emphasis in that I mentioned, but you have no problem using the scripture when you think you have one that questions or disproves something we believe in. hummmmm
I doubt seriously that if it weren’t for us NC’s asking for scriptural support for what you believe, you fellas would never open a Bible to actually see what it says.
God does work in mysterious ways doesn’t He. Lol
I believe God puts us all where we’ll work best, and he leads us to doctrine that suites our personality the best, and will help us grow spiritually. You are where you function best, since you were programmed as a youth to fit into that atmosphere.
I would probably die spiritually in your Church, as so might you in mine, but since God only sees the inner man, and not the outward appearance, I’m sure that the large percentage of what you do in your Church that doesn’t come from the heart, God doesn’t see any way.
He doesn’t see you kneel, or genuflect, or cross your self etc.. Unless He hears your inner being, your essence, your inside man, your heart, involved in what your doing, they mean nothing to God.
I can’t believe a rote prayer is coming from the inner parts of most RC’s, but its from your memory which is no more then reading thoughts, and not thinking them creatively or sincerely.
It’s like typing, there is no inner awareness involved, no sincerity, unless it comes from your heart, through your brain, and then your outward thought or words, otherwise its no more then vain, thoughtless janglings. IMO
JH :-)
I'd be curious to learn what it is exactly that you DO! when you "spend quality time directly with God." When I see Protestants worship, they are usually vocalizing and almost always at length in highly ritualized language.. Are you thinking of something like the old Quaker mode of worship, without ministers and sitting in silence? Thomas Merton in his Seven Story Mountain. described his visit to a Quaker congrehation when he was "shopping around: for a faith. He said he enjoyed the silence, and felt it was great--until someone felt moved by the spirit and got up to speak and he began to talks,,,and talk,,,and talk! .
i simply simply don't KNOW of any NC mode of worship that is any way more direct than spending an hour before the Blessed Sacrament without prayer book or beads. Reading the Bible privately and prayerfully comes close. I suppose I must give due notice to "speaking in tingues" or ecstatic motion, although as Paul pointed out, these require an interpreter.
The difference is that the elements of our faith that you mention are not flat out denied by Scripture, we simply disagree in interpretation.
That is clearly not the case in the conversation we were having before you got so defensive. If you want to turn this conversation from an honest examination of your doctrinal error into an ad hominum attack based on an unknowable assertion (the sincerity and efficacy of the faith lives of Catholics you have never met), have at it.
Is this tactical shift because you do not want to examine your doctrine anymore? Because if you can't refute the Scripture I showed to you, you might be forced to re-examine your beliefs? I should think you would welcome the opportunity to align your faith with Scripture. Its just a part of running the race.
v.
As I have stated before, I converted.
A long term, unformed, Bible reading Christian, the Scriptures were opened to me, and I believed.
v.
And you know that we are not? Did Havoc loan you his aura-reader?
What I find as ironical, you have no biblical support for any of the traditions you put so much emphasis in that I mentioned, but you have no problem using the scripture when you think you have one that questions or disproves something we believe in. hummmmm
It's not "ironical," it's a consequence of your belief in sola scriptura. You are open to criticism when you deviate from clear Scriptural teaching and practice. We are not. Deal with it.
I doubt seriously that if it weren’t for us NC’s asking for scriptural support for what you believe, you fellas would never open a Bible to actually see what it says.
Jim, you are quite the bigot this morning. You know better than this, yet you insist.
I believe God puts us all where we’ll work best, and he leads us to doctrine that suites our personality the best, and will help us grow spiritually. You are where you function best, since you were programmed as a youth to fit into that atmosphere.
Yes, the God of the indifferent. That you don't see how influenced this idea is by modern individualism is a shame.
I would probably die spiritually in your Church, as so might you in mine, but since God only sees the inner man, and not the outward appearance, I’m sure that the large percentage of what you do in your Church that doesn’t come from the heart, God doesn’t see any way.
You would "die spiritually," it seems, in any Church that you did not bother to understand, any Church that did not tickle your individual fancy.
Oh, and I am just as sure that God doesn't care for the things that NCs do that don't "come from the heart," but I am not here judging what they may be from outward appearances. You really want to be superior, don't you?
He doesn’t see you kneel, or genuflect, or cross your self etc.. Unless He hears your inner being, your essence, your inside man, your heart, involved in what your doing, they mean nothing to God.
Who the @#$^$ said that we do these things without involving our "inner being?" You need to put aside your judgmentalism, and quickly. It is quite ugly.
The simple fact is that Catholics worship with our entire bodies. The fact that you think gestures and positions are somehow indicative of a lack of inner thought shows that the one lacking inner thought is not us.
Kneeling is an expression of worship that goes beyond what could ever be verbalised. Words fail in these situations. Yet you see the movement of the body as an indicator that the mind is empty. That's just ignorant.
I can’t believe a rote prayer is coming from the inner parts of most RC’s, but its from your memory which is no more then reading thoughts, and not thinking them creatively or sincerely.
Do you know any hymns by heart? Does that mean you don't believe what is sung? Hypocrite.
SD