Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
How disingenuous of you Dave, If a man is on trial for murder, do you stand the prosecutor up before the jury and ask him if he ever once in his lifetime had the thought of killing someone flash through his mind.
And if you did, then in God's eyes you are just as much a murderer as this man on trial, so therefore since your not perfect, this murdered should go free.
Detective Furman, have you ever said the word N!ger?
Is this where you get your tactics?
JH
How disingenuous of you Dave, If a man is on trial for murder, do you stand the prosecutor up before the jury and ask him if he ever once in his lifetime had the thought of killing someone flash through his mind.
Disingenuous? Ha. Why can't you answer this simple question? Why won't anybody?
Ipev has been arguing a case. I am completely entitled to cross examine his case. I'm sorry if you don't like the questions, but examining another's logic is hardly "disingenuous".
And if you did, then in God's eyes you are just as much a murderer as this man on trial, so therefore since your not perfect, this murdered should go free.
I am not defending pervert priests and I am not trying to acquit them. I am merely examining ipve's contention that he can examine their external behavior and pronounce that they are "reprobate" and have no faith whatsoever.
Can I do that? Or do I have to remain silent and let him say whatever he wants without rebuttal?
Ipve states that since the sin is repeated over and over that there must have been no repentence in between the episodes. So to ask him wehther he ever repeats a sin in between repenting is exactly on point. If he does it, how can he know that others don't?
He has sensed this and is now shifting to the "heinous" nature of the sin. His point being that, yeah, he may sin and may even repeat sin after repenting, but at least he does sin that horribly.
We all know what kind of argument that is, in God's eyes.
SD
Why am I not entitled to have my rather simple questions answered, when I strive to answer even the most ridiculous questions about abortion doctor Hitler priests?
Fair is fair. Pick on someone else.
SD
A claim has been made that those who engage in an habitual sin are without faith. Do you agree or disagree that this claim is true?
Corollary to this is the claim that if one "repents" and then commits the same sin again, that one hasn't really repented. Is this what you believe?
Keep in mind what Paul has to say on the subject:
I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. (Romans 7:15)
Hey. I said that right off the bat and he kept arguing with me. :-)
It's good to have you back in the light again. LOL
You have ommitted the latest claim, that the "heinous" nature, by itself, means that the act was "conscious" (that is, completely an act of will, by design, etc.).
Like we didn't already establish that a Christian could have a crime of passion and kill someone and that would not be evidence of having no faith.
SD
That's why this is The Neverending Story! ;o)
SD
Second. I personally believe you are carrying your "pedophile priest" argument to the extreme.
Third. Assuming you haven't been lurking for some time, you have caught on to DoubleSpin, er, I mean SoothingDave very quickly.
We certainly have learned there’s a completely different Catholic Church out there then the one they’ve portrayed in the past..
It seems their in nothing a person can do that the RC's consider sin any longer, or can be put out of the Church over.
In fact, the more heinous the sin, the more likely they'll defend you.
I suppose that with the record they have recently, it's been necessary for the hierarchy to inform their believers, that they shouldn't expect any changes in the priesthood, as far as getting rid of the perverts, because their is no longer a sin that is serious enough to warrant it.
But watch how quick they'll bring back the Latin Mass, and make the priest turn his back on his people again, because this is really serious stuff, and the Church is going to take a strong hand in ridding it of this horrendous problem.
How sick and perverted.
JH
Dave, is this an accurate characterization of your opinion? If not, please correct.
On what basis could you have possible reached this conclusion?
Dave is sometimes more right than wrong.
I am currently suffering from a rotator cuff tear and I don't wish the same on Dave. Mine from a fall, his from patting himself on the back.
I am just catching up on the hundreds of posts made in the last few hours. I believe it is time for both SD and in_principio_erat_Verbum to move on to a new topic.
Psst in_..., be patient. Dave will give you plenty of ammunition.
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