The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[SoothingDave]

My argument, as I explained to "trad", wasn't concerning the presence of Christ in the Eucharist(that's an argument for another day), but your assertion that Christ was in communion, or inhabited spiritually, or the real spiritual presence of Christ is present in a priest who has demonstrated that he is a reprobate.

For the third time, that was not my assertion.

I won't tell you a fourth time.

You do not want to understand how a sacramental minsitry works. That is fine. Just stop asking questions that you don't want to think about the answers to.

And for the last time, you are the only one who is "judging" people to be "Reprobate." That is not your job.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Brother, this is entirely judgmental and self-gratifying. Deny it if you wish, but it's there for those with eyes to see.

Lol. I'm quite confident of what most of these eyes see. I aint worried. :-)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

The other questions Steven and the new guy wouldn't answer are is they can be used by God as instruments of His and if that meant they were perfect?

Crap. I thought I'd answered all of them. Sure they can be used by God. God used a donkey. But according to scripture we're to remove them. These are so simple.

[RobbyS]

Academics make claims to objectivity, but more often they approach the Scriptures in the same spirit as Spinoza.

[drstevej]

Ex opere operato, normally translated "the work by the work," or, as more specifically defined in The Catholic Catechism, "by the very fact of the action's being performed," has always been the cornerstone of Catholic sacramental thinking.

The Catechism goes on the say, "the sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God." This is a quote from Thomas Aquinas.

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/dodone/ExO.html

===
SD, is this not the RC response to those questioning the moral suitability of the officiant?

[Havoc]

I HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT.
At about 11:30 this morning, I was in an acceident while going out for lunch. Someone pulled out in front of me with 100 feet clearance in a 40mph zone. I managed to slow down and trim some off the impact; but, I still hit him - had no place to go where I wouldn't hit a vehicle.

That said, i have a lot of road rash, a hole the size of a bullet in one leg (3 stitches worth) and a nice shiner. I'm pretty beat up and will be at the least, very slow on responses for the next few days if I can respond at all. The brusing and drawing in my muscles has me only barely able to walk and restricted in typing as only one of my two hands is useable without great complaint at this point.

For those more interested in the bike (kidding) it suffered damate to the front end only - that I can tell. The triple tree snapped for those who know what it is. So, all that said; please be patient with me. And for those who really know how to pray; please keep me and my transportation in your prayers. I have to replace the bike or repair it in very short order. Thank you all for your attention, and your understanding.

[JHavard]

Thanks for letting us know Havoc. Satan must be really pi$$ed at you for some reason, can you think of anything you've done differently in the last couple of weeks?(grin)

I'll put our prayer for you to find the perfect wife on hold for now, since she wouldn't appreciate you in that condition anyway, and pray for a miracle in your life, and some fast healing.

We'll be praying for you, expect a miracle. Jim and Ginny

[Havoc]

Thnank you JH. Yeah, that is the first thing I thought of when I got to the hospital. You can't kick the devil in the teeth and not expect retaliation. On the other hand, I came out of it far better than I otherwise should have. The hospital staff was pretty amazed - as was pastor when he showed up :) As far as the wife thing, who knows, I might now look a little like a lost puppy in need of some love LOL.

[IMRight]

Ouch! I didn't even know you were a biker.

Prayers for a quick recovery (regardless of whether you think I know how to pray) :-)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Dang Hav. I guess I'll have to go it alone. Wait a minute. Isn't that what the democrats said when we had 50 other nations in the coalition? :-) I'll be prayin' for ya.

PS You gonna get rid of that bike when you get well? :-)

[CindyDawg]

We don't have any cracker barrels locally. When we drive to Florida we break at CB. (Your right though. I have one of their maps and we measure the distances.) Good food and great shopping. :') We are taking the train this time. None of us have ever rode on one. We even reseved one of those little cabins.

[CindyDawg]

Waffle house. An experience in dining. Once, a waitress brought my meal. (she and the cook screaming at each other) My eggs slid off onto the table. She took her hand and scooped them up and put them back on my plate. I told her, I didn't think so,and to cook me some more. She informed me that there was nothing wrong with the eggs because her hands and the table were clean. She huffed back to the cook and they huddled and kept looking at me like I was a germ freak. They brought me more eggs though :')

[Havoc]

Sorry, was trying to be tactful after being jarred a bit.
I think it's probably understood. I'd just rather benefit from prayer than have to annoint my house to cleanse it from a 'favor'. I greatly appreciate the thought - I'm just a bit weak to be dealing with that anymore than I have to. People don't understand the spiritual consequences of what they do in a lot of cases. And you don't know who all is reading these threads.. Anyway, thank you from the bottom of my heart for your concerns and your prayers.

[CindyDawg]

Cause she's "dead." I know. Well, yes, but I didn't pray to her why she was alive either.