Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
Drivel, drivel, pure drivel. The RC Church has re-defined sin, to where it seems it's a badge of honor for a representative of God to be a sinful person.
You say, Warts and all, in a bragging sense, like we know we're the true church because we tolerate more sin within then any other church.
Paul would have disbanded your whole church had he been here.
He put a man out of the church at Corinth for doing a lot less then these priest you defend.
1 Cor 5:1. It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
V-5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
V-6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
You and other Catholics who justify sin in your ministry, are as Paul said, glorying in your sin by justifying it.
You justify it by claiming compassion and forgiveness, and asking others to ignore it unless they are perfect.
You are glorying in your liberalism of sin.
JH This makes me sick.......
I made no such assertion, as a matter of fact I specifically stated that the language of "real presence" of Christ's "Body and Blood" is a description of the elements in Communion, not of the priest.
what I said was that Christ is present in the priest performing sacraments. What is meant by that is not a physical presence, or a "real presence," but the recognition that spiritually, Christ is the one acting through the actions of the priest.
Now you, without answering if Christ coudl work through you, have judged and condemed certain priests for their sins and concluded that Jesus could never work through a sinful man.
SD
"Generic New World Order Ecumenical Heresy Lovefest".
50,560
Nope. I don't see how that answers my questions. Try again, they're easy.
Does Christ work through you? Does He do that even though you are nto perfect?
It would go a logn way toward dispelling the holier than thou attitude y'all have if you just answered the damn question.
If I wanted a discourse on how bad Catholics are I'd ping Havoc.
SD
This seems like a characture of my argument. I don't think I am making the argument that we should not punish the guilty. I am arguing that governments are always fallible. Death is final and we can never revive someone once we discover they are innocent. In the interest of the innocent, we should avoid giving the ultimate sentence of death that can never be revoked.
Given our appeals processes and our public subsidy of legal representation for the accused, I think the standard of "reasonable precaution" is met.
What constitutes "reasonable precaution"? After reading the below stories, I do not think our judicial system has institutred "reasonable precaution." Have I now created a simplistic portrayal of your argument? (I probably have, so feel free to help me along/correct me.)
JIMMY WINGO Dixie Inn, LA
CM's investigation yielded videotaped recantations by the two main state witnesses who admitted they were coerced by a deputy sheriff into lying at Jimmy Wingo's trial. A dismissive Louisiana Governor and Board of Pardons rejected this strong evidence. Wingo, an innocent man, was executed by electric chair on June 16, 1987, for a 1983 Dixie Inn, LA, murder.
· Morning Advocate, June 17, 1987: "Wingo's Case First Failure for McCloskey."
ROGER COLEMAN Grundy, VA
CM's four-year investigation of this 1981 Appalachian murder in Grundy, VA, produced scores of affidavits which plainly showed who the real killers were, and completely unraveled the State's weak case against Roger Coleman at trial. Nevertheless, the courts refused to grant a hearing and the Governor declined to intervene. Coleman was executed on May 20, 1992, still proclaiming his innocence even while in the electric chair. A superbly written book by John Tucker entitled May God Have Mercy (1997, W.W. Norton) tells the Coleman story. In the spring of 2001, CM returned to the Virginia Judiciary to petition it to allow post execution DNA analysis to go forward.
· Los Angeles Times: David G. Savage, Times Staff Writer, July 22, 2001: " '92 Execution Haunts Death Penalty Foes."
Are you the judge? Or are you the witness (Acts 2:4)?
I didn't post those scriptures in response to any questions you asked. I'm asking you. What do they say to you? Respond to both verse 1 and verse 2 please.
1 Corinthians 5
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
BTW, what s the question Dave?
Becky
So, in your definition, Adolf Hitler could have been ordained a priest, murdered millions of people and still have the presence of Christ in him, without having repented unto genuine saving faith.
Listen, my friend, I never said that priests carry about with them forever "the Presence of Christ in him."
So stop putting words in my mouth.
Stop seperating entering the priesthood from "repenting unto genuine saved faith." Priests are living testaments to the faith.
Stop acting like priests do nto repent of their sins after they commit them.
And stop acting like a "priest" who murdered people woudl continue in his duties for long.
I am tired of you and your unwillingness to learn or to even answer simple questions, or to grasp concepts that Catholic children can grasp.
You must have a block to prevent you fom understanding a sacramental priedthood. I won't hold it against you.
Here's one set, that Jim wouldn't answer:
Can no person who has faith ever lose control and murder, or steal, or lie? Does that mean, automatically that they have no faith? Or does it mean that they lost control?
The other questions Steven and the new guy wouldn't answer are is they can be used by God as instruments of His and if that meant they were perfect?
SD
Sounds to me like he understands it all too well.
You never asked me a question before I posted those scriptures. So quit cryin' you scared baby.
Where did you come up with this one?
The disciples weren’t ministers when Christ gave them the example, and when Paul told the church at Corinth they were doing it wrong, and carefully explained how it should be done, they weren’t ministers and he never alluded they had to be.
Scripture please
JH
Ok. I'll answer. Yes.
Does that mean, automatically that they have no faith?
No.
My complaint is that if it were me that lost control I would, like David, be asking God to grant me repentence, give me mercy, and take not thine Holy Spirit from me.
I wouldn't be waking up the next day, donning a robe and passing out communion like nothing ever happened.
We have a duty to protect society as well. Killers have gone on to kill again, whether that is in prison, or by release, or by escape. You must weigh the additional violence input to society by those who have already killed with the risk of executing the innocent. The ledger is not all on one side.
Another factor is the popularity of toughter sentencing, like "three strikes" laws. If a 2 timer is committing armed robbery, the consequence for being caught is life imprisonment. In a non-death penalty state, the consequence for murder is life in prison.
There is an incentive to kill the clerks in the store, to facilitate any escape. At the very worst, there will be no additional penalty possible for the crime.
SD
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.