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To: malakhi
Pro-death penalty is punishing the guilty.

This seems like a characture of my argument. I don't think I am making the argument that we should not punish the guilty. I am arguing that governments are always fallible. Death is final and we can never revive someone once we discover they are innocent. In the interest of the innocent, we should avoid giving the ultimate sentence of death that can never be revoked.

Given our appeals processes and our public subsidy of legal representation for the accused, I think the standard of "reasonable precaution" is met.

What constitutes "reasonable precaution"? After reading the below stories, I do not think our judicial system has institutred "reasonable precaution." Have I now created a simplistic portrayal of your argument? (I probably have, so feel free to help me along/correct me.)

JIMMY WINGO Dixie Inn, LA

CM's investigation yielded videotaped recantations by the two main state witnesses who admitted they were coerced by a deputy sheriff into lying at Jimmy Wingo's trial. A dismissive Louisiana Governor and Board of Pardons rejected this strong evidence. Wingo, an innocent man, was executed by electric chair on June 16, 1987, for a 1983 Dixie Inn, LA, murder.

· Morning Advocate, June 17, 1987: "Wingo's Case First Failure for McCloskey."

ROGER COLEMAN Grundy, VA

CM's four-year investigation of this 1981 Appalachian murder in Grundy, VA, produced scores of affidavits which plainly showed who the real killers were, and completely unraveled the State's weak case against Roger Coleman at trial. Nevertheless, the courts refused to grant a hearing and the Governor declined to intervene. Coleman was executed on May 20, 1992, still proclaiming his innocence even while in the electric chair. A superbly written book by John Tucker entitled May God Have Mercy (1997, W.W. Norton) tells the Coleman story. In the spring of 2001, CM returned to the Virginia Judiciary to petition it to allow post execution DNA analysis to go forward.

· Los Angeles Times: David G. Savage, Times Staff Writer, July 22, 2001: " '92 Execution Haunts Death Penalty Foes."

50,609 posted on 04/30/2003 1:55:19 PM PDT by Sass
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To: Sass
I don't think I am making the argument that we should not punish the guilty. I am arguing that governments are always fallible. Death is final and we can never revive someone once we discover they are innocent. In the interest of the innocent, we should avoid giving the ultimate sentence of death that can never be revoked.

We have a duty to protect society as well. Killers have gone on to kill again, whether that is in prison, or by release, or by escape. You must weigh the additional violence input to society by those who have already killed with the risk of executing the innocent. The ledger is not all on one side.

Another factor is the popularity of toughter sentencing, like "three strikes" laws. If a 2 timer is committing armed robbery, the consequence for being caught is life imprisonment. In a non-death penalty state, the consequence for murder is life in prison.

There is an incentive to kill the clerks in the store, to facilitate any escape. At the very worst, there will be no additional penalty possible for the crime.

SD

50,620 posted on 04/30/2003 2:05:53 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Sass
In the interest of the innocent, we should avoid giving the ultimate sentence of death that can never be revoked.

In the interest of the innocent, the guilty should be punished appropriately.

http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=1255086&nav=0zHFFY2h

James prichard, 23, admitted murdering his girlfriend, Carrie Smalling, last april. Smalling is the mother of their child.

A judge sentenced Prichard from Northern Kentucky Monday. He was sentenced to 35 years. The sentence prichard 's lawyer requested in exchange for a guilty plea.

"You're a coward to take somebody's life," Prichard didn't look...but he listened as the sisters of smalling spoke about the painful loss of their sister. "You J.C. you killed her execution style, you pressed the gun between her eyes as she pleaded for her life."

Smalling was was his live-in girlfriend, and the mother of his daughter.

Smalling's body was found by two kids on a gravel road near the couple's Silver Grove trailer home on April 27th 2002.

Smalling had a bullet wound in her head and another in her stomach. Police say Smalling and Prichard were together at a friends house the night before.

"I can't believe you actually killed my sister. You just took her, you took her away from us and it's not fair....." said one of Smalling's sisters in court Monday.

After the murder prichard went to his mother, told her what happened, and then disappeared. He drove north for about 600 miles. He got as far as Michigan when he decided to turn himself in.

Prichard will spend at least the next 20 years of his life behind bars.

"Your mother still gets to tell you she loves you....my mom and dad don't get to do that."

Is 20 years in jail "justice"?

http://www.nbc4columbus.com/news/2165364/detail.html

Confessed Ohio Killer Executed In Lucasville...

Ohio executed David Brewer Tuesday morning by for killing a 21-year-old woman in southwest Ohio...

Joe Byrne, the victim's husband, witnessed Brewer's execution. He said softly: "Where's your remorse? ...

Brewer, who lived in Centerville, near Dayton, and managed a rental appliance store, was a former fraternity brother of Byrne's husband, Joe Byrne. He later told police he was attracted to his friend's wife.

Brewer lured Sherry Byrne from her home to a suburban Cincinnati motel in 1985, on the pretense she would be meeting him and his wife.
Authorities said Brewer sexually assaulted and beat Byrne in a motel room before abducting her and driving around with her in the trunk of his car for several hours. Police said passing motorists at one point reported seeing a piece of paper with "help me please" written in lipstick shoved through the crack in the trunk of a car.

Brewer killed Byrne after she tried to escape in Beavercreek, a Dayton suburb. He later told police where to find her body. Police said she had been beaten, choked with a necktie and stabbed 15 times.

Both of these men confessed to their crimes. There is no doubt about their guilt.


Sherry Byrne. Raped, terrorized, murdered. She was a real person, completely innocent, who underwent a horrific experience through no fault of her own. She had a husband and a family, people who loved her. What about justice for her and her family?

In March 1985, Sherry and Joe Byrne were planning their future. Sherry, 21, and Joe, 25, had married a few months earlier. She was working as a part-time cosmetics saleswoman, and Joe had a job with a prominent financial company.

They bought a house in Springdale. They were trying to have a baby.

Then in a brutal and gruesome act, Joe's friend and fraternity brother, David Brewer, lured Sherry from her home on a ruse, then abducted, raped and killed her...

There's never been any question that Brewer killed Sherry on March 21, 1985. But his attorneys say death is not the right punishment for a 43-year-old man who led an upstanding life before and after the crime...

Sherry's family says death is exactly the right punishment.

David Brewer didn't just take Sherry's life when he strangled her with a necktie, stabbed her 15 times and slit her throat. He ruined the lives of everyone close to her.

Her mother, Myrtle Kaylor, had to be hospitalized. Grief overwhelming all other emotions, she and Sherry's stepfather, Lylburn Kaylor, soon divorced. Joe, too, said he was in and out of psychiatric care after his wife's death...

On the day he was sentenced for Sherry's murder, Greene County Prosecutor William Schenck told Sherry's family the appeals would take more than 15 years. Countless appeals in state and federal court have led to Tuesday.

Schenck has presided over four death penalty cases - Brewer would be the first defendant to die. Byrne asked him to witness the execution with him, and Schenck agreed.

He debunks the argument that Brewer should be spared because he is good person.

"Some crimes are so horrid nothing else matters," Schenck says. "What he did more than justifies the death penalty. He had more than a dozen opportunities to let her go and he chose the dark side."

A husband's grief

It's never been easy, but the first year was the hardest, Joe Byrne says. Twice that year he checked into the psychiatric unit of The Christ Hospital.

"I wanted to die," Byrne says.

He never went back to the home he shared with Sherry. Instead, he moved into his parents' Middletown home. He couldn't even go back to his job. When his boss pleaded with him to return, Byrne tried, but burst into tears on his way downtown. He turned around and went home...

Now the most difficult times are anniversary dates. The day Joe and Sherry got married, her birthday. The day she died.

In 1990 during a trip home to visit his parents, Byrne went to the deserted farm lane where his wife drew her last breath. "I just sat there are cried," he says.

Byrne has stayed close with the Kaylors over the years. That's helped, Myrtle Kaylor says.

"There's a void in my life as if it's never really complete," says Kaylor, who lives in Dayton...


Myrtle Kaylor displays family photos of her daughter Sherry, brutally murdered at age 21.

50,745 posted on 05/01/2003 7:36:17 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: Sass
Continued...

http://www.nbc4.tv/News/1572986/detail.html



Thousands of mourners packed the Crystal Cathedral on Wednesday to say goodbye to 5-year- old Samantha Runnion, a child many knew only through a photograph flashed during news reports of her abduction and murder...

"I can't even imagine losing a child in that way," she said, holding her 2-year-old daughter Bailey.

Orange County Sheriff Michael Carona drew a standing ovation when he moved to the podium to address the mourners. Holding back tears, Carona said Samantha was "America's little girl."

She said the message for her children was "stay close to us, tomorrow's never promised."

Even though she was too young for kindergarten, Samantha left her preschool playmates behind and sat with the kindergartners at her school, learning her numbers and her ABCs. She was supposed to start classes this fall at Lawrence Elementary School. Her favorite subject was reading, in which she excelled. She was proud that she had recently lost both bottom teeth and then an upper one, earning visits from the Tooth Fairy.

Samantha would have celebrated her sixth birthday this Friday. She was playing with a friend when a man who said he was looking for a puppy grabbed her. He put her in a car as she kicked and yelled to a playmate: "Help me." ...

Samantha's nude body was found a day later alongside a mountain highway between Orange County and Lake Elsinore. An autopsy showed she was asphyxiated and assaulted.

Alejandro Avila, 27, who has been charged with kidnap, murder and sexual assault, claimed he was at an Ontario shopping mall when Samantha was abducted while she played near her Stanton home on July 15. Credit card and cell phone records contradict his story, the Los Angeles Times reported Wednesday.

"Fortunately for us, if he hadn't used his cell phone or his credit cards," the trail would have been harder to follow, an unidentified source told the Times.

Two years ago, Avila was acquitted by a jury of molesting two girls in Riverside County. One of the girls, the 9-year-old daughter of an ex-girlfriend, lived in the same town house complex as the Runnion family. Avila often visited the area, said Lewis Davis, 39, the ex-girlfriend's foster brother. Samantha and friend Sarah Ahn, 5, were playing about 150 feet from Samantha's home last week when a man drove up in a two-door light green Honda or Acura after making a U-turn. The man got out and asked for help finding his puppy, then took off with the kicking and screaming girl.

Samantha's body was discovered the following day in neighboring Riverside County near Highway 74 on the edge of the Cleveland National Forest.

Explain why this man does not deserve the death penalty.

50,747 posted on 05/01/2003 7:36:20 AM PDT by malakhi
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