Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: [6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
This was in my prior post - you can read I presume?
"not the Gentiles exclusively. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles" since Paul also taught Jews as well as Gentiles there is no basis for this.
Paul taught a Gentile audience - that was his ministry. How can you be a Christian and not know this. Peter was commissioned to teach the lost tribes of Israel. Neither was forbidden to teach the stray israelite or gentile. That did not make the opposite their charge. Sheesh, I feel like Pete Burke trying to talk sense to Urko.
This is sort of like saying "since I am not having eggs until tomorrow, you could not have had them yesterday." Clearly, the author of Revelations is using this very statement of Peters to create the relationship in the first place, since everyone knows what Peter meant.
Not possible as John was taking dictation. Do you not know the scriptures? Revelation is a dictation of events shown in a vision - not popular creative writing. The linkage came from a vision that occurred 35 years after the writing of Pete's 1st epistle. Pete established nothing. Or were you not aware that it was not until after the writing of revelation that the linkage began showing up in other manuscripts. Your desperation is showing.
Lastly, still waiting on that "dating methology" that proves Paul wrote to Timothy at the same time Peter wrote from "Babylon." I know we are not talking carbon dating here. That would be the last remaining bit of evidence proving your thesis, would it not?
Ah, so now you not only don't know the scriptures, you don't know anything about the history of how the texts were authenticated and dated. For once I find myself chuckling inside wondering where your fellow Catholics are that screem to the heavens about bucking what is undeniable. Did you not get an education on this? Did you not also know that the dates to which I refer are not only widely agreed upon but agreed upon and sealed by your own church. I have to admit one has to go a long way to get a Catholic to question the decisions of their leaders; but, to see one pop forth so readily is heartening. Alas, these things are web published, or are you not also aware of that.
You mean they are yet up walking about?! Praise God this is news. Take me to them will you. I must meet not only the oldest living humans ever recorded but I must also speak with Paul and have him lecture you all on scripture.
One wonders why you confuse spiritual death with bodily death and decietfully so, Robby. If you had truth on your side, why is it necessary to engage in deception with such a pronounced untruth.
You say "Commanded" to meditate may be harsh
I say commended to meditate.
I've been mostly lurking, letting others carry on the good fight; Presenting the Word.
When I search the OT I find the word "Meditate" in Joshua and mostly in the Psalms
Joshua 1:8 Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth;
meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do
everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.Ps. 1:1 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the
wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of
mockers.
Ps. 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he
meditates day and night.
Ps. 1:3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its
fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he
does prospers.etc
As you have noted we are directed to meditate on G-d's Law and His Love.
it is also true that the life of Y'shua is an example of G-d's Love.
Recently someone recommended a book to me by Richard J. Foster: Celebration of Discipline
It goes into meditation where you are asked to visualize yourself with the Christ in Israel.
You are to visualize the Bible as your autobiography with the Christ.
He promotes something called Positive Mental Attitude visualization.
He has a chapter called Meditation where he quotes from Psalms
and then leads you through people like: Thomas Merton, Carl Jung,
Jeremy Taylor, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Thomas a Kempis,
Peter of Celles, St. Teresa of Avila, Francis de Sales,
Richard Rolle, Alexander Whyte and Ignatius Loyola.
chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>
Again. No. Not Scriptural. Wrong. (sigh)
Anyway, my questions to you were:
I tried to keep them simple.
This may be of some help.
Who Are Jesus' 'Other Sheep' (John 10:26)?
Christ said, "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd " (John 10:16).
"This fold" refers to Judah—the Jews who were living in Judea. Christ come to His own—to the Jews—and His own did not receive Him (John 1:11). Christ was born of the tribe of Judah, but the Jews rejected Him saying, "We will not have this man to reign over us" (Luke 19:14).
Who, then, are the "other sheep"? There are two legitimate answers: one physical, one spiritual.
On a physical level, the "other sheep" are the other tribes of Israel. Israel (Jacob) had more than one son—twelve in all. The "other sheep" then are the descendants of the other sons of Jacob. Christ refers to these other tribes of Israel as "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:6).
Israel and Judah became two separate nations or houses during the reign of Rehoboam, Solomon's son (see I Kings 12). The nation of Israel, the northern ten tribes, were conquered by the Assyrians in 721 BC, and many of its people were removed to the area near the Caspian Sea. Eventually, the tribes migrated from there into northwestern Europe. Thus, the "other sheep," or the lost tribes of Israel, were not in Judea during Christ's ministry.
Christ concludes by saying, "And there shall be one flock and one shepherd" (John 10:16). When will the house of Judah and the house of Israel be one flock and have one king, one shepherd? The prophet Ezekiel gives the answer (Ezekiel 37:21-28). David will be that king with Christ, the chief shepherd (verses 24-25). Ezekiel 34:23-24 and Jeremiah 30:9 show that David is to be resurrected from the dead and made king. The resurrection from the dead occurs at Christ's second coming to this earth (I Thessalonians 4:13-15; I Corinthians 15:20-23, 50-52). Christ will then establish the new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Hebrews 8:8-10; Jeremiah 31:31-33; 50:4-5).
On a spiritual level, the "other sheep" are the members of God's church. Jesus and the apostles frequently call Christians "sheep" (e.g., Matthew 25:33; Mark 14:27; John 21:15-17; I Peter 2:25; etc.). Christ's Jewish audience did not "hear [His] voice" but instead rejected Him and His message and forced the Roman government into crucifying Him. Though many of the original members of the church were Jews, salvation was soon opened to Gentiles as well, and together they became an entirely new entity, the household of God, the church (see Ephesians 2:11-22).
Paul explains in Romans 9-11 that national Israel/Judah has been put aside for the time being for their ultimate spiritual good, and thus God's flock is presently His church. As the apostle puts it, "Israel has not obtained what it seeks [salvation and the promises of God]; but the elect [the church] have obtained it, and the rest were hardened" (Romans 11:7). Indeed, Paul names the church as "the Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16. He also shows in I Corinthians 12:12-27 and Ephesians 4:4 that there is only one body (flock), and Peter says there is only one Chief Shepherd, Jesus Christ (I Peter 5:4).
Matthew 10:
[5] These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,
[6] but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Is it your belief that the Lost Tribes and the lost sheep of the house of Israel are not one and the same?
Ahhh. Oops.
I'm not familiar with Foster's work, but I like most of the authors he refered to, particularly Thomas a Kempis's "Imitation of Christ", so I'll see if I can find a copy.
I see "Saint" Teresa of Avila, when did Ignatius and Francis get demotions? :-)
Sounds like an awfully Catholic perspective... you switch teams while I was away? Now I may have to switch.
I don't believe, in most cases, it is audaciousness (sp) or dishonesty on their part, it is simply a case of lack of knowledge.
When all else fails the good RC resorts to "whatever my Church teaches me is true".
Folks, it appears we have a self proclaimed winner.
We'll be sure to tell Havoc when he gets back home. Lol
JH :-) Enjoy it, it may be short lived.
Sure they are. They just won't take place in the 2nd death.
Twas the Catholic church, which sprung from a mixture of Messianic belief and paganism, insofar as they dictated we should celebrate Easter (the pagan goddess of Ishtar). I can't help it if you can't shake all of the Romanism off. :-)
They died once. The won't die again. Scripture. Simple as that.
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