Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
See my 46840.
SAN CRISTOBAL DE LAS CASAS, Mexico (AP) -- An angry crowd stoned to death an Indian man accused of practicing witchcraft in a southern Mexico town with a long tradition of religious violence.
The man, Domingo Shilon Shilon, was also hacked with machetes Sunday by the crowd in San Juan Chamula, a majority Catholic township on the outskirts of the colonial city of San Cristobal, 460 miles (735 kms) southeast of Mexico City.
Shilon, 50, was caught by the crowd in a neighborhood known as Rancho Narvaez, state police said. After killing him, the crowd partially burned his body.
Shilon, like most of his alleged attackers, was a Tzotzil Indian, a branch of the Maya. The Chiapas state Justice Department said an investigation was continuing into the killing, but it is often difficult to prosecute such cases, given that witnesses are frequently unwilling to testify.
Since the 1960s, San Juan Chamula has seen numerous killings and confrontations as "traditional" Catholics -- who mix pre-Hispanic Indian rites with Roman liturgy -- battle to expel evangelical Protestants.
Witchcraft is often blamed for outbreaks of illness or the deaths of children in the impoverished Indian community, where many practice faith healing and some residents -- mainly men -- engage in so-called "white" magic.
In 1996, residents of another San Juan Chamula neighborhood beat and then hanged a man suspected of causing ailments and misfortune through witchcraft.
The villagers killed the man after they went to a cave he frequented and found bottles dressed in the local Indian garb, objects he allegedly used in casting spells on people.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
"Witch Killed"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Is the RCC faith and practice the same throughout the world.
I don't think so!
SD
The question is, would you feel at home with this Catholic Church?
The comforting thought is you now have a hard copy book for your library. An online resource can't hold a candle to that.
Just a little joke. The Bible does literally say that you shouldn't allow witches to live.
The question is, would you feel at home with this Catholic Church?
The Church has always struggled with superstitions retained among her vast and varied peoples. I wouldn't suppose one finds any sanction for these pagan leftovers. The Church prefers to allow such abuses, it would seem, rather than throwing people out.
It is not dissimilar to the abuses we see in this country that are apparently tolerated by the hierarchy. Except that American abuses tend to be narcissistic rather than pagan.
SD
Mat 5:38+ "you have heard that it hath been said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but..."
The Word of God is all sufficient!
The Church has always struggled with superstitions retained among her vast and varied peoples. I wouldn't suppose one finds any sanction for these pagan leftovers. The Church prefers to allow such abuses, it would seem, rather than throwing people out.
The question is, why include them in the first place? This is an example where "numbers" are meaningless.
It is not dissimilar to the abuses we see in this country that are apparently tolerated by the hierarchy. Except that American abuses tend to be narcissistic rather than pagan.
I partially agree. However, it is a matter of degree. These people should never have been counted as "Catholics" in the first place. The Church should still be evangelizing them, but not accepting them into the Church until they were ready. (Methinks.)
None
Who said they were "included?" They are "tolerated" at best.
These people should never have been counted as "Catholics" in the first place. The Church should still be evangelizing them, but not accepting them into the Church until they were ready.
you do things your way, and we'll do them ours. We are more patient than the typical Protestant. If we can over a generation or two Christianize a people, we will do so. We dont' demand instant results.
SD
There’s no problem, only a difference of what you and I consider important when it comes to knowing God’s will.
If there had been other family’s with these same names, then the Holy Spirit would have separated them in some other way, and if history has the answer to this, please enlighten us.
Who said the father was a carpenter?
Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Both accounts are true, Joseph and Jesus were both carpenter’s. Mark 3:16
This is simply insane to believe that a character is referred to in this way. Sorry.
Because it’s a different Mary.
No problem, but I’m still waiting for you to tell me that Mary left her only begotten Son at the cross, while everyone else stayed. If not, why wasn’t she ever mentioned again until Acts.
What does your history tell you about this?
You are so intent to downgrade Mary, the Mother of God, that you assign her this schizophrenic name-shifting role. What other character in Scripture is referred to in this haphazard and contradictory manner?
Why do you strive so hard to believe that the mother of Jesus (her firstborn, by all accounts) is referred to as the mother of her (presumably) 2nd and 3rd children only?
Mary has absolutely nothing to do with our different concepts of her place in the church.
She knew nothing about what man would do with her memory, and would have been to first to object. It’s me who claims she loved her Son so much she would be the last to leave Him, and it’s you, who are either saying she left the scene early on, or the writers didn’t consider her important enough to follow up on where she was all this time.
Where else in Scripture or in Jewish tradition is a person's mother no longer his mother after he dies?
There is no other circumstance in the bible where a man is crucified while his mother looks on, so unless some expert on Jewish history has the answer as to why the names and their mentioning in order of importance keep changing, then we will just have to wait to see.
I have the names of her children, James and Joses, that support her as being the mother of Jesus. Until you give an example of another woman named Mary who also has sons named James and Joses, then you have no biblical proof of your belief what so ever.
If the scripture fails to distinguish between these (supposed) two different women, that have the same names, and two sons with the same names, who were all part of the small group of people who would be at the cross, then it was done so on purpose to confuse, and I’d never believe that.
JH :-)
What you miss is that the Holy Spirit, on His worst day, never imagined that anyone would think that Mary, the Mother of Jesus, would be confused with this other Mary, the mother of James and Joses.
That Mary, the mother of Jesus would be called anything other than that. Good Lord, she gave birth to Jesus. Wouldn't that be a a defining factor in identifying her?
SD
BTW, The Catholic Church has existed in Mexico for hundreds of years. You must be considering some very long lived generations.
You know exactly what I mean. This is why I stopped talking to you a while back.
You must be considering some very long lived generations.
Yes, that and the effect on society as a whole. Maybe some members engage in pagan relics, but if this is tolerated whole families may come to know Christ. Where vigorous attempts to stomp out such practices woudl lead people to take their families out of the Church's influence.
I don't see that as better.
SD
Bwahahahahahahahha. :-)
So your saying the Holy Spirit was caught off guard, when people began idolizing and venerating Mary, and along came some people with strange beliefs, who felt it was a sin, since there was no record of it happening with the Christians or the Jews?
My guess is God knew it was going to happen eventually, so he made sure that those who followed the teachings in the scripture could never be caught up in it, and only those who follow traditions could justify it.
That Mary, the mother of Jesus would be called anything other than that. Good Lord, she gave birth to Jesus. Wouldn't that be a a defining factor in identifying her?
It’s apparent that the people of that time didn’t consider Mary anything other then a blessed Jewish mother. It was the Catholic Church that decided to venerate her to something more then she was.
Matthew 19:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
V-49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
JH :-)
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