Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
If you do indeed stick to what the Bible says, you must realize not-Mary's-ovum is possible.
One difference is that, in view of the whole bible, "P"erpetual "V"irginity is exceedingly more difficult to defend. Funny how the RC system embraces the easy assumption -- without any biblical evidence -- that her egg was involved in His conception, and refuses to do the same regarding His brothers and sisters. Of course, rethinking either of those would diminish her role in their system.
Yet, the real difference is that the RC system cares not about possibilities. Until such time as it receives Another Official Special Revelation, it has done all Christendom the great service of removing any such mysteries from the Word of God.
Matthew 13 54When He had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, "Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works? 55Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? 56And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?"
Only Jesus is referreed to here as a child of Mary.
55Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? 56And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?"
The subject is about Jesus, not Mary.
Why would the writer suddenly switch from the facts about Jesus, and begin talking about Mary's children?
Because he knew someday the RC's would use this silence to build a doctrine?
Lets see how it would sound.
V-55 Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are these not her children James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? V-56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?
If it had been written as you suggest it was meant to be, the original subject of who Christ was and how to identify Him in the community, would have been changed from Him to His mother.
Let me demonstrate’
Isn’t this Jesus, the son of a carpenter? (subject is Jesus)And isn’t his mothers name, Mary? (the subject is still Jesus) Aren’t Mary’s children named James, Joses, Simon and Judas? (subject is now Mary, and who her children were.)
JH :-)
Rather, it is cited as proof that they are co-uteral. Which it is not.
It is cited when asked for text showing Mary is the mother of anyone else.
The fact remains that nowhere in the Bible is Mary, the mother of Jesus called anyone else's mother. Nor is any other person identified as a child (son or daughter) of Mary.
That is the point. That Mary having only one child, Jesus, is not contradicted by Scripture.
SD
One cannot honestly dismiss the possibility that her ovum was not involved, that God provided both parts of Him who was conceived in her womb.
There is no biblical requirement or evidence for the involvement of her egg. In fact, if words mean things, there is biblical evidence to support the position that it was not.
It may be. But, thank the Lord, I am not left to my own devices.
You have still not even attempted to address how Jesus redeems humanity if he is not one of us, if he does not assume the fallen humanity in order to lift it up.
SD
John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
SD
I'm going to the house of an old college professor of mine. There are also going to be students from the school's Hillel/Chavurah group attending.
SD
(Again with these hyperpious implications.) Neither am I.
You have still not even attempted to address how Jesus redeems humanity if he is not one of us
I would never suggest such a thing. It is written,
Many more times than any other title, He calls Himself is "Son of Man."
I could tell you, but then Mack would want to convert. ;o)
The Sabbath before Passover is called "the Great Sabbath". I'm not sure if this is what you are talking about.
Our cats stay in the house. I think they look forward to the fall, when we inevitably get mice trying to find a warm place to stay for the winter.
I would never suggest such a thing. It is written,
Philippians 2
6who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Can you attempt to answer the question? Or is it that you do not understand it? I fear so.
You see, God made Adam. Adam fell. We are all desecnded from Adam.
Orthodox Christianity believes that God took this humanity, from Mary, and united it to Himself in the person of Jesus.
Jesus, through His perfect obedience to God enabled us to be redeemed. He was the perfect human.
Now, if you do nto believe that God took humanity from Mary in order to unite man to Himself, then where did He get the humanity?
If He created a new humanity, unrelated to the old, then how could Jesus have redeemed the old humanity?
If He was not related to us, not a human of Adam's line, then how is He our Savior?
SD
If, over the Easter weekend, you see video of two men picketing in St. Peter's Square, with signs reading NOT MARY'S OVUM, you'll know who it is. ;o)
My wife's grandmother takes the whole family out to brunch every year at a local banquet hall. I'll stick with the roast beef!
Naw. They all went with me on the Sabbath during Thanksgiving weekend. None of them asked to go with me again tho. :-)
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