Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
What does "for that sabbath day was an high day,) mean?
Becky
Anti-Marian verses
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
I had to add Gen 3 to build on mat 11:11. Both show that Jesus is not of Mary's seed since here we see that seed does NOT mean physical seed. If it did it would have to mean that for the serpent too.
Luke 11:27,28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare these and the paps which thou has sucked.
but he said, Yea rather , blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Mat:125 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Normal reading of this says they had sex after she bore the Lord.
Mat: 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
In other words He is not of Mary. She is not His mother genetically. He did not come from one of her eggs. Sure he came through her but he is not of her.
Mat 12:46-50 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark 3:31-35 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for the.
and he answered them, saying, who is my mother, or my brethren?
And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother and my sister, and mother.
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisdec.
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Jesus has no mother spiritually and typically
Gal 4:22-31:
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Notice that there really is a mother of the church and it isn't Mary! Once again Mary is not even mentioned.
Misrepresented Mary Verses
I'll add these soon
Of course! Again, the RC system is consistent. Concerning the written word and the Word made flesh, the Word of God is deemed entirely insufficient.
Would that be considered an act of veneration or of adoration?
...not to mention the fact that people were accustomed to getting "well drunk" on the good stuff such as He made.
Oh, well. Thankfully, the teatotalitarians aren't (to my knowledge) preaching a false Gospel.
That particular Sabbath is regarded as a "High" Sabbath because it falls during the feast of unleavened bread. Remember Jesus was arrested on the night of the Passover and the 7 Day feast of unleaved bread starts the day after Passover. Passover and the Feast of Unleavened bread are 2 of the 7 required feasts outlined in Leviticus Chapter 23.
Malakhi is an observant fellow.
You haven't asnwered the question yet.
SD
I guess we've been lucky -- all our mice have been in the basement. I have, however, had the dubious pleasure of stepping on fresh hairballs when barefoot. Ick!
Maybe I'm just lucky, but our cat tends to hunt outside
. SD
Now you're getting it.
How convenient.
If you do indeed stick to what the Bible says, you must realize what I say is possible. That is all.
No one except Jesus is ever referred to as a child of Mary.
SD
Letting scripture interpret scripture is the key to understanding the word of God.
None of which serves to be anything other than self-admiration. Care to answer the query?
I know that me asking is of little importance, but I think malakhi might deserve an answer.
SD
Veneration. Cats recognize only themselves as god. :-)
SD
(The implication, of course, being that I think otherwise. How thoughtful.)
I believe I gave him the answer last Friday. Thinking he might have missed it, I pointed him to it again today.
At any rate, I would expect that if I neglected to answer him, he would have asked again (certainly without the pompous allegations).
So.
So Paul apparently had different ideas about the Law than Jesus did. Some people might find that significant.
Revelation 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Gal 4 above shows that Mary is not the Mother of us all, proving these verses are about Israel not Mary. Countless other references and personifications of Isreal also prove this is about Israel and not Mary. The lack of references about Mary in picture or type also show this.
By the way the pain and travail is that of Israel for bearing the burden of the Law and the persecution right down to Rachel's weeping due to her sons being killed in an effort to get Jesus
That would appear to be a good catch, if it weren't for the fact that the manuscripts use different words. (As is so often the case, the RSV is flawed.)
So, it's not a question of the RSV, but of which underlying text is used.
In Matt. 11:11, the Lord uses the word "gennetos" which means "born." The word appears 2 times in the NT. Its root "gennao" appears 97 times in the NT, and always relates to birth. A few of those 97 do say Jesus was born -- e.g. of God (1Jn 5:1) -- but, I can't find where any of them says He was "gennao" of woman, or of man.
In Gal. 4:4, it is the word "ginomai" which means "made." The word appears 677 times in the NT and, in addition to "made," is translated most often as "came to pass." Never does it relate to birth.
OK, even if we buy that there are two different words, what does this tell us?
What does it mean that Jesus is "made" of woman? Does that mean He is created? What does it tell us?
You have done nothing other than changing the language from English to Greek. You have not explained what you think "made" means?
SD
Yes. I'll have to look and see what date Vermes puts on the Habakkuk Pesher, which was critical to Eisenman's interpretation.
I do think Eisenman's general position on James is correct, even if he has the dates of the Scrolls wrong. An earlier dating would remove the Scrolls as a source of information about James, but there is still plenty there from other sources that are more securely dated.
You're missing my point. If you are right and "made" is more accurate than "born", then IMO it is even more problematic for your position. "Made of a woman" certainly seems to suggest a direct physical/genetic component, which "born of a woman" could be interpreted as avoiding. "Made of a woman" suggests that something of her went into the "making" of Jesus.
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