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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)
Associated Press ^
| 3/24/01
Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.
Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
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TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: RobbyS
And If what Luke tells us is true, then she is as much above Elizabeth as Jesus is above John.
JESUS is above John because JESUS is God, and John is just man (and therefore, subject to God). Mary is one with the rest of humanity, including Elizabeth. Both of these women were blessed by God. Elizabeth was blessed to bear John, the forerunner of the Messiah, in her old-age. Mary was blessed to bear the Messiah, the very Son of God.
To: newgeezer
And who is the man Jesus? The Messiah, the son of the Holy One. And who is John? More than any Prophet! Remember what Elizabeth said to Mary: Blessed art thoud amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. How have I deserved to be thus visited by the mother of my Lord?" No one who has eveer been visited by Mary has ever done anything affept to ask that some question. Who is Mary? The mother of my Lord.
To: newgeezer
It's Quadiny.
46,743
posted on
04/14/2003 12:23:25 PM PDT
by
biblewonk
(Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
To: biblewonk
It's Quadiny.Long live Diana of the Ephesians. :-)
To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
How come?Because as soon as you started making very valid claims about the falsity of their faith then they, or at least two of them, would start slamming the "abuse" button.
46,745
posted on
04/14/2003 12:30:04 PM PDT
by
ksen
(HHD,FRM)
To: Quester
No, Jesus is above John because Jesus is the Christ. That is humanly comprehensible. To say that He is God, is not. To say that Christ is God, which is to say what Arius would not say, is to admit of a veil of mystery that the tools of reason cannot penetrate.
To: Invincibly Ignorant
Which is to ignore history. The Christians dispossessed the goddess and let her great shrine go to ruin. Why should they worship under any guise what they thought was a demon?
To: RobbyS
No, Jesus is above John because Jesus is the Christ. That is humanly comprehensible. To say that He is God, is not.
Might this be true for you, ... but for others not ?
To: ksen
Because as soon as you started making very valid claims about the falsity of their faith then they, or at least two of them, would start slamming the "abuse" button. That's frustratingly PC. Why to complainers have so much clout just like in the liberal world? One athiest and down go the 10 commandments and Christmas and the bible and everything. One complainer and down goes the thread.
46,749
posted on
04/14/2003 2:05:57 PM PDT
by
biblewonk
(Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
To: RobbyS
Which is to ignore history. The Christians dispossessed the goddess and let her great shrine go to ruin. Why should they worship under any guise what they thought was a demon?And then ran back to Ephesus to announce Mary as Mother of God around 500ad. Don't forget to include all the facts.
To: RobbyS
had to hurry and appease those pagans with a replacement.
To: RobbyS
Sorry but, what's your point? I have no issue with any of what you wrote. So, I can only guess there's something semantical that I'm missing.
46,752
posted on
04/14/2003 2:20:20 PM PDT
by
newgeezer
(fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible)
To: RobbyS
It was at Ephesus that the christian church declared Mary to be the "the God-bearer" in 431 C.E. This move was intended to legitimize christianity in the eyes of the people of Asia Miinor. Prior to 431 C.E. Mary was not recognized by the Christian church.
Many of the Great Goddess's titles were taken, and declared to be the titles of Mary, including; "Queen of Heaven", "Divine Virgin", "Mother of All". Ephesus was chosen for Mary's installation to add legitimacy to the church's claim that Mary, not Diana, was "the Mother of God", the "Mother of All."
To: Invincibly Ignorant
The Christians of the time treated Diana with great disrespect. The Council of Ephesus gave Mary the title of theotokos in opposition to the lesser title that Nestorius and much of the Syrian Church preferred: Christotokos. All of the parties involved in the council would have horrified by any confusion of Mary with a pagan goddess.
To: RobbyS
The Christians of the time treated Diana with great disrespect. Ya but the pagans didn't. They had need for appeasement. Your counsel was more than happy to do it.
To: newgeezer
Theotokos is a technical term which is employed to assert strongly the divinity of Jesus. It tells us no more about Mary than Luke does. To turn that around, however, the Church by adopting that title asserts that the Mary depicted by Luke is no less than Theotokos--the one through whom God entered history as a man.
To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
You guys think we could debate the mormons with out all the name calling and the pulled posts? Its something we haven't done yet. What ya think? I think it's possible, but most of my understanding comes from scripture so it's hard to have a discussion about their books or traditions...it's the same with Catholic tradition. Still we could discuss the things we have in common and I'm positive it woudldn't get as nasty as we've sometimes seen.
To: ksen
Because as soon as you started making very valid claims about the falsity of their faith then they, or at least two of them, would start slamming the "abuse" button. Well ya see, that's the thing. You can see clearly that they are in error. You can see clearly that I'm in error. I can see clearly that you're in error. And I can see clearly that they're in error. They can see clearly that we're both in error. Now if we all believe ourselves to be walking in truth then clearly expressing your opinion that others are "wrong" is fair game. But the way the lds have been treated goes way beyond disagreeing and long ago crossed into petty sniping and grudge matches...at least in my eyes.
To: RobbyS; biblewonk
Orthodox Christianity has never admitted that Jesus is the son of Joseph. He is son of God, son of Mary; true God and true man. Now that is a paradox, like so many things about Jesus. And If what Luke tells us is true, then she is as much above Elizabeth as Jesus is above John. Gotta admit Robbys right. At the very most Joseph is Jesus's step-father.
To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Alot of the time we will be taking about what we have said that day on this thread with our friends and family and they even ask us how you guys are doing, (I know we need to get out more:) and lol...I know what you mean. I'll talk to my wife about you guys and I'll say something like "Big Mack said this...or Angelo (alright MALAKHI) said that" and she'll get this puzzled look on her face until I remind her about the thread.
PS: This year I think we all should gang up on angelo and get him saved, we ALL can work on that together, then we can fight over what church he goes to. :)
It's my belief that Angelo is saved. I think Christ never left him, but he just don't realize it yet. :-)
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