The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

We bought a knock off, about 3 years ago, $950 king size, at the time the select com was $2000 its just as good as the other, not one problem. They let ya try them out for 90 days, ya don't like it, send it back.

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Come on you old bag :)

Tell me what happened.

BigMack

[CindyDawg]

I know I have to make my own decisions but I want to ask yalls opionion about something. I had decided to tell the preacher no, because my husband wasn't comfortable with it, the next time he asked if he could visit. He didn't ask again though and last week we were in Calif. Anyway, he saw my husband working in the garage and walked in. Eddie said he asked if he died today if he would go to Hell. Eddie said he told him no, but he kept asking if he was sure. Remember this man has never met my husband and they have established no relationship. Eddie said he finally told him that only he knew what was in his heart and he was secure in his salvation. He said the preacher then told him he needed to start coming to church to do the Lord's work. Eddie told him he does the Lords work every day and didn't have to go to church to do so. He said he explained that he has to put in a lot of hours and that we leave town every other weekend so he can get away and rest. He said the preacher told him he needed to change this and start coming to church. Eddie said he held out his hand to shake and told him he needed to go. Eddie was concerned that he had caused me embarressment, by sending the preacher on his way. I wasn't embarressed but upset. We had been talking about him going to church with me and now he absolutely did not want to go. I was planning on staying home today and start going to another church next Sunday but I didn't. My 2 little grandsons stay with us on Sat. night and go to church with me on Sunday. We have a routine and I guess the 3 year old noticed a difference caz he said "Granny, I want to go to church". I said, "you do? Ok, but lets go to a new church" He said "no, I want to go to (his) church" I took him but went to the nursery before greetings and left the nursery before services over.I didn't want to discuss this today. Yall think, I should stay and deal with this or go elsewhere? Am I over-reacting?

[CindyDawg]

I wonder what his garage-side manner is like? lol

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You can't get around the teaching of the trinity in the Bible, its there in black and white, it don't take no Emperor to come up with that teaching, any old dummy can read it and see it in the Bible for themselfs, I did. :)

The reason His followers believed Him, is because He appeared to them after being raised from the dead, I don't kow about you, but that would of done it for me. Do you believe all these people lied about seeing Him after He was raised from the dead?

BigMack

[malakhi]

Yall think, I should stay and deal with this or go elsewhere? Am I over-reacting?

Refresh my memory. Had you told the pastor not to bring this up with your husband?

Stopping by unannounced and uninvited, and questioning him like that, when he had never even met your husband, is pretty cheeky. For whatever my opinion is worth, I'd be looking for a different church.

[CindyDawg]

He kept asking if he could visit and I kept telling him not a good time. I had decided to tell him just no caz my husband uncomfortable about it, but he never asked me again.

[malakhi]

You can't get around the teaching of the trinity in the Bible, its there in black and white, it don't take no Emperor to come up with that teaching

You heard me say to you, `I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

The reason His followers believed Him, is because He appeared to them after being raised from the dead, I don't kow about you, but that would of done it for me. Do you believe all these people lied about seeing Him after He was raised from the dead?

I don't think they lied. I think one or more of them had visions of seeing the resurrected Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father.

But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;
and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God." (Acts 7:55-56)

I think this understanding of the resurrection was spiritual at first.

So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. (1 Corinthians 15:42-44)

The gospels were written decades after the events they describe, and not necessarily (tradition aside) by the original disciples. I think what was originally understood spiritually came to be understood literally. (Kinda like the Catholics understand John 6 literally).

You and I read the gospel accounts differently. You take all of it as literally true, and I don't. I don't know if this gulf can be bridged.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Preachers do things like that, its what God called them to do. I know how your husband feels, I felt the same way, I didn't need no stinking church to worship and serve God. :)

But in my heart, I knew God was right, He tells us in His own words in the Bible to us, not to forsake the assembly of the saints, It don't matter if you agree or not, God is the one who said it, and He means we should go to church, now if we say we love and honor God, we should do what he says, we may not like it, but in the end its best or us.

Let me tell your husband what going to church has done for me, First, I look forward to going now, I have meet people who were just like me, that believe the same things I do, we are Brothers, and will spend all eternity together, its a safe haven from the world, the WHOLE world is headed AWAY from God, we are headed to Him.

I learn from the teaching and preaching every time I go, and draw a little closer to God each time, its great!

I have been asked to pray for folks there, and have seen God answer for them and help them.

We just had a faith conference mission meeting, and missionarys from around the world came and told us the work they are doing, building new churches, winning souls to Christ, because of the support they receieve from our church, this years pledge from our church was over $200,000.00 to help missionarys reach the lost, and that will be a credit to our crown we will receieve when we are at the judgement seat of Christ, so we can give that crown back to the one who really ownes it, Jesus Christ our Lord! What a blessing it is to know that you are helping to win souls all over the world as well as in our home church.

I have grown closer to Christ by going to church, the fellowship with my brothers, the preaching and teaching, helping with missions, singing and worshipng Christ, I plan to start to go on thur night calling to invite folks in the area to church and share the gospel with them.

All in all God is right, we do need to go to church, we are the church, and it is His way that we are to worship and serve Him.

The preacher has an impossiable job, he will make mad some folks that don't want to hear the truth, but thank God you have a man that will do what God tells him to. If your preacher is not teaching false doctrine, stay and see it thru, and tell the old man, I said quit being so stiff necked and go, it will bless his life if he gives it a chance.

BigMack

[malakhi]

He kept asking if he could visit and I kept telling him not a good time. I had decided to tell him just no caz my husband uncomfortable about it, but he never asked me again.

He should have taken the hint, IMHO.

[CindyDawg]

He knows I'm posting this and will read your post. I agree with what you are saying but I might as well get the icy hot out caz that stiff neck now froze.I'm just not a "in your face" type of person and I didn't like his approach.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You have first hand accounts of people seeing and touching Him eyeball to eyeball belly to belly,
and the New Testament is from God thru man, no errors, it happened just like it says. You can except it and receieve life or you can reject it and take a very hot bath for ever, and don't forget, your family will follow your lead, just make REAL sure you are right! Do you want that on your mind forever when its too late to go anything about it?

Please, its not as hard as you're making it, sometimes a brilliant mind can get in the way. :)

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

He came and asked your husband if he was saved, and told him he needed to come to church, where is the wrong in this?

If you were sick and you died, and about 6 months later I came and told your husband that you didn't have to die, that I new of a cure for you, but I didn't know him and wasn't invited, what do you think he would do to me?

BigMack

[CindyDawg]

Where's Becky? You don't understand. You are thinking like a guy. Per my husband he KEPT questioning him. So, we are back to my initial posts a few weeks ago. He's insinuating he isn't a Christian because he doesn't go to church and this ticks me off. See, I want him to go to church, he knows I want him to go to church. I can get mad and make his Sundays miserable but outsiders best not .

[malakhi]

You have first hand accounts of people seeing and touching Him eyeball to eyeball belly to belly

Bottom line is, why should I believe that these accounts are literally true?

and the New Testament is from God thru man, no errors, it happened just like it says.

You believe this on faith, Mack.

You can except it and receieve life or you can reject it and take a very hot bath for ever

And the Muslims think both of us are going to hell.

If I need faith in Jesus in order to be saved, and I can only have this faith through God's grace, then I guess the Calvinists are right about predestination. If I need something that only God can give me, and if He chooses not to give it to me, then I am SOL.

But I don't believe in an eternal hell, because I believe this contradicts God's perfect justice.

Please, its not as hard as you're making it

Mack, if I could make myself have faith, I would do so, simply out of love for you as my friend. But I can't make myself believe. And to claim I believe when I don't would be hypocrisy.

So either God needs to give me faith, or I have to hope that you are wrong and either the non-fundamentalist Christians or I are right.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Ask God for faith in Jesus Christ as His son and your savior and see what He does.

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Nag, nag, nag :)

Beckey is in bed, your preacher probably took your husbands word for his salvation, he knows he can't judge another mans heart, he was just trying to get him to see how importaint is is to come to church. and it is.

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Why should you believe the old Testament is true?

It could be a fariy tale ya know.

BigMack

[nate4one]

And how do you get around 1-2-and 3 John, that from all accounts I've read, they were written between 90 and 100AD? Do you argue with these dates also, or the author of the letters?

JH,
I know you are very learned and smart. So by no means am I trying to insult you when I ask if you even read my posts OR 1,2 and 3rd John? Not to mention Jude!!
They specifically encourage their audeince to flee from the onslaught of the Judaisers and false Christians which were running rampant. And Revelation, along with ALL books of the New Testament tend to leave you with the impression of an intact and relentless Judaistic system persecuting the church.
Judaism was virtually wiped out in AD 70. Most of it went underground similar to Babylonian captivity. They no longer persecuted the church after AD 70!!

It makes no logical sense, due to the internal evidences of scripture, to date ANY Epistle after AD 70, when Judaism was virtually nonexistent!!!(Underground at minimum!)

JH, there is just as much evidence and MORE INTERNAL evidence for a pre-AD 70 date for all Epistles and Revelation!

God bless
Nate

[nate4one]

Yall think, I should stay and deal with this or go elsewhere? Am I over-reacting?

Cindy,
Since your issue is much more important, let me give you my opinion.

The church has failed many people because a college degree is responsible for "ordination" over the Holy Spirit and hence, church has failed.
Going to a sanctuary is NO WHERE in scripture as requirement for Christians. However we do not "forsake the gathering of the bretheren." This means you have your fellow Christians over for a Bible study. This means you have a lesson period with you huband and Grand-kids in your own livingroom about the Bible. This means you go away every 2 weeks with your husband and spend time praying together, etc.

Point being we need to fellowship, but Biblically there is NO requirement to sit and listen to a speech once a week.

Your Pastor cannot be objective in this, because more seats filled averages out to more Tithes!

God Bless,
Nate