Posted on 08/15/2024 2:41:44 PM PDT by MosesKnows
Is America a Christian Nation or Was America Founded as a Christian country?
I see this question often and the spirited arguments and debates that followed caused me to assert that America was founded on Christian principles.
At the Diet of Worms Martin Luther declared that his conscience was “CAPTIVE TO THE WORD OF GOD”.
This was NOT the modern understanding of “freedom of conscience”
Zactly
That is an excellent dissertation. Thank you.
Neither is the one from the 18th century 'modern', but it does more closely adhere to Luther's writing than the today's bastardized magisterial reasoning. Today's understanding a man-centered view which removes the Author of Freedom from the equation.
“Although I’m unaware of Christian principles that were not already Jewish principles.”
Universality is one. Anyone sharing our values could become American from day one. That is a core concept that Christianity added to Judaism.
Equality is another. America was also founded on the notion that all men are created equal and we are equal before God. That was never a Jewish belief, though modern Jews have borrowed it from Christianity.
Those who see it founded on other than Christian principles, are, I think, those don’t wat it seen as a Christian nation merely because it is not a 100% Christian nation. Most anyone could see why it never would be 100%.
Those who see it founded on other than Christian principles, are, I think, those don’t wat it seen as a Christian nation merely because it is not a 100% Christian nation. Most anyone could see why it never would be 100%.
I agree
Actually, those are Jewish.
Anyone who desired to become Jewish could convert, of course. Many did. Notably Ruth, for example.
Although such was not necessary, as all gentiles who followed the laws of Noah (very much on a curve) would have a place in the world to come, just like Jewish people. Indeed, this remains the Jewish belief.
In fact, the person identified as the “most” faithful to G-d was Job, who was very much a gentile. In fact, he was most likely a descendant of Ishmael going by the names of his children.
So, no, I respectfully disagree.
Good points. It would be an interesting project to trace each part of the Constitution back to its origins. My guess is it is about:
* 50% English common law
* 30% Roman law
* 10% New innovations
* 10% Biblical principles
Christianity was one of the founding principles of America, but not the largest.
The main reason for that is that Christianity itself has very little to say on the nature and organization of governments.
Well that is incorrect. The US Constitution exempts the President from working on Sundays, and it ends with "Year of Our Lord".
Who might this "Lord" be referred to in the US Constitution?
The Declaration refers to "the laws of Nature, and of Nature's God".
It also refers to "Creator" and "Divine Providence". In that era, and in that place, those things meant "Christianity."
Nope, you will find that all Jewish writers pre-Jesus would refer to Ruth as a Moabite not as a Jew.
The concept of conversion was imported into Judaism from Christianity at a later date.
Alexis De Tocqueville continued:
“The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live.”
(1835)
As a secular French philosopher trying to comprehensively describe America he had no reason to deceive himself or us about Christianity’s foundational role in the nation.
Joseph Story
U. S. CONGRESSMAN; “FATHER OF AMERICAN JURISPRUDENCE”; U. S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT JAMES MADISON
One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundations.113
I verily believe that Christianity is necessary to support a civil society and shall ever attend to its institutions and acknowledge its precepts as the pure and natural sources of private and social happiness.114
David Barton wallbuilders
Yes and the Calvinists / Presbyterians lead the fight.
https://stream.org/this-independence-day-its-more-crucial-than-ever-that-we-remember-our-history/
Yes, next question.
Referring to the "Year of Our Lord" was merely a dating convention, an English translation of A.D. (Anno Domini).
Article II of the Constitution outlines the duties and powers of the President. It makes no mention of exempting him from working on the Christian Sabbath.
You must remember that the author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson, was not a Christian, as evidenced by his writings. Along with John Adams and Benjamin Franklin, he may have acknowledged the utility of the Christian religion for the social order. But Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin never acknowledged Jesus Christ as God and Savior.
You must remember than in 1787, there were a plurality of Protestant denominations, as well as Catholic and Jewish communities in places like Maryland and Newport, Rhode Island. The churches derived from Nonconformists like the Baptists and the Congregationalists would be opposed to anything resembling a national church. At this time, a majority of the 13 states still had a state-sponsored Protestant church, the Anglicans/Episcopalians in the Southern states and New York and the Congregationalists in Massachusetts and Connecticut.
There must be considered the impact of religious skepticism from both French and English sources. The prominence of the Masonic lodges, which states that it is open to the religious people of any stripe, has to be considered. Many of the Founding Fathers, including George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, and Paul Revere, were members of Masonic lodges. The terms of "Creator" and "Divine Providence" would not be considered problematic to Unitarians, Jews, or Masons, yet would not be necessarily contradictory to Christians.
There is a lot of good information in the AMERICAN HERITAGE SERIES on dvd from David Barton of Wall Builders.
Also Dr. Andy Woods had two great messages on IS AMERICA A CHRISTIAN NATION.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvTmvNNorqw
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCJV5HlFhmc
Does anyone know a good Judeo-Christian church I can attend?
We can talk all this to the end of time. The question is, ‘do you believe Jesus is the Son Of God, and Jesus is the only way to God and eternal life?’
Many claim the name, Christian, and it ends there. Does the name connect you to anything more..
My intellectual son wanted to normalize Jesus.. Yes He did miracles, yes He spoke well.. Yes His father was a carpenter.. Jesus walked among the people.. “He had temptations like any other man.” Who made Him into more than just a man...
It was easier to figure it out in human terms, than go the route of God.. Where it became complicated.
We are a body, and we are more than animal.. We have a spirit.. Which communicates with God.. If we are willing and open. To an intellectual, if they can’t figure it out, it’s not true.
So one night, God took this intellectual to heaven in a vision.. He came back and there were no more questions..
There was wonderment.. Tears.. No words except what he saw.. Unbelief was gone.. Reality was too great to describe. He talked for hours.. A changed man... Jesus was Who He claimed to be.
The glory was more than words could describe.. The love was real.. Family was there.. How could anyone not want to go there.. Peace.. It was not some far away place.. It was home. ..
Buy the book Original Intent by David Barton; it contains several hundred pages of historical proof that we were.
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