Vatican To Publish New Document On Marian Apparitions Next Week

One News Page ^ | 5/6/24 | Courtney Mares

[Roman_War_Criminal]

The Vatican’s doctrine office will publish a new document next week on discerning Marian apparitions and other supernatural events.

The Holy See Press Office announced on Tuesday that Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, the prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF), will unveil new norms for discernment regarding “apparitions and other supernatural phenomena” on Friday, May 17.

In an interview with the National Catholic Register, CNA’s sister news partner, last month, Fernandez said that the document will provide “clear guidelines and norms” for discernment.

The new norms will be the first time that the Vatican’s doctrinal office has issued a general document on apparitions in four decades. Pope Paul VI approved norms on “the discernment of presumed apparitions or revelations” in 1978.

[BipolarBob]

We merely claim that, in extremely rare and defined instances, he will not teach anything contrary to what God would teach. Pope Francis, for whatever his flaws, is very careful to avoid encountering any of those instances.

Would Jesus consecrate a worshiped idol?

[ealgeone]

Now you do realize that the word they received would be the oral tradition, and that the scriptures that are being referring to in that verse would be the old testament, don't you?

*****

Are you suggesting that all the Marian dogmas, the infallibility of the pope, and all of the other later developments Rome came up with were part of the oral tradition being preached in Acts?

And not one writer of the NT recorded these and incorporated them into Scripture??

[metmom]

Paul did not preach oral tradition.

Nor is preaching *oral tradition*.

He went to synagogues first in every city he went to and preached there. And they used Scripture.

Acts 17:1-3 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.”

Acts 17:10-11 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

They were commended for verifying Paul's preaching against Scripture.

And they were verifying what PAUL had to say instead of being expected to just take him at his word because of who he was.

Which sets the example that everyone who listens to preaching should do the same. Compare what is being said by the preacher against God's word. And I have known many pastors who told their congregations to do that very thing; not just believe what they said, but hold him accountable by comparing what he said against God's word to see for themselves if it was correct.

[metmom]

Doctrines that hadn’t even been developed at that time.

[PeterPrinciple]

He went to synagogues first in every city he went to and preached there. And they used Scripture.

---

Old Testament scripture.

[ebb tide]

The Protestants' view of Jesus Christ:

[ealgeone]

It's dragging you down, ebb....to the very place you're trying to avoid.

[ealgeone]

They were OT Scriptures....does that make them any less worthy or inspired??

[PeterPrinciple]

They were OT Scriptures....does that make them any less worthy or inspired??

---

Just stating the facts.

Why do you assume a judgment?

[ealgeone]

Your statement implied a judgment.

[PeterPrinciple]

Your statement implied a judgment.

---

No it didn’t, the idea of implied judgment was you.

[ealgeone]

ok. whatever.

[ebb tide]

One trick pony.

Yo, Bro!

[Elsie]

Yo, Zach!

"I must stay at your house today.”

[metmom]

Old Testament scripture.

So? Is it any less Scripture, Divinely inspired, or valid?

You do realize, that when Jesus quoted Scripture during His temptation by Satan, to validate Himself and His ministry, and on the Road to Emmaus that He used OT Scripture, don't you?

It was that very Scripture that foretold His coming and told people what to look for so they could identify Him.

So here comes Paul along, showing them from Scripture how Jesus fulfilled it and thus demonstrating that fact. That gave his claims credibility.

There's also the complicating factor that the doctrines which Catholicism declares to be *sacred tradition* did not yet exist and the traditions the Jews added to Scripture were roundly condemned by Jesus Himself.

[Hieronymus]

We merely claim that, in extremely rare and defined instances, he will not teach anything contrary to what God would teach. Pope Francis, for whatever his flaws, is very careful to avoid encountering any of those instances.

---

Would Jesus consecrate a worshiped idol?

---

I will not go so far as to deny that this is what PF is doing, and will not go so far as to affirm that this is what he is doing——who am I to judge?

I will, however, firmly deny that this even remotely resembles an instance where the criteria for Papal infallibility is being exercised. I thus firmly deny that your post is in any way a response or even an engagement with the portion of my post you are pretending to engage with.

[Elsie]

 So here comes Paul along, showing them from Scripture how Jesus fulfilled it and thus demonstrating that fact. 

 

 

Golly, some other folks are told to do the same!

 

---

---

 

The

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 71

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238–239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.

1–4, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are sent forth to proclaim the gospel; 5–11, Enemies of the saints shall be confounded.

1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, that the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel, the things of the kingdom, expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures, according to that portion of Spirit and power which shall be given unto you, even as I will.

2 Verily I say unto you, proclaim unto the world in the regions round about, and in the church also, for the space of a season, even until it shall be made known unto you.

3 Verily this is a mission for a season, which I give unto you.

4 Wherefore, labor ye in my vineyard. Call upon the inhabitants of the earth, and bear record, and prepare the way for the commandments and revelations which are to come.

5 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also;

6 For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power.

7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.

8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.

9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you—there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;

10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.

11 Wherefore, keep my commandments; they are true and faithful. Even so. Amen.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

 But what 'scripture' was available at this time?

 

---

---

 

The

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 71

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238–239.

 

---

---

“. . . In the year 1834, a committee was formed, consisting of the Presidency of the Church, and some others, for the purpose of again preparing the revelations and having them published. This selection of revelations went on, and in 1835 it was presented at a conference of the Church held on the 17th day of August and there was approved. [The 1835 edition had 102 sections.] When the Prophet made this selection, he made the statement that he prized these revelations beyond the wealth of this whole earth. . . . “. . . At this conference it was decided to include in this publication of the Doctrine and Covenants seven Lectures on Faith. These lectures had been given before the schools of the elders in Kirtland during the years 1834–1835. In accepting these seven Lectures on Faith, it was made very clear to that conference that they were not received on a parallel with the revelations, but were accepted as helps in the study of the doctrines of the Church, and so they were added to the Doctrine and Covenants with that understanding.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 3:192–95.)  32493_eng.pdf (churchofjesuschrist.org)   (Page 2)

[Elsie]

So, popes CAN be infallible; but just not when they are being uninfallible.

[Elsie]

  July 02, 2016 01:18 AM Nelson said, "It is not a record of all former inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, but only of particular groups of people." This idea would surprise JS and many other church leaders. It was invented, along with the Limited Geography Theory, only when it became obvious just how ridiculous and indefensible the traditional "empty land" assumption truly was. Even Nelson doesn't have that much faith.

 

 

Oops...

 

 

Joseph Smith History 1:34 "[Moroni] said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;"

 

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 209: "INSPIRED NATURE OF BOOK OF MORMON. The Book of Mormon is the sacred history of the ancient inhabitants of the American continent; it contains the predictions of their prophets, the commandments of the Lord to them, and the history and destiny of those ancient peoples…"

 

Joseph Fielding Smith, The Restoration of All Things, p. 93: "According to the word of the Lord to Joseph Smith the continent of America was given to Joseph and his posterity as an everlasting inheritance. That is what is meant by the branches running over the wall. The Book of Mormon professes to be the history, in large part, of these children of Joseph who were led out of Jerusalem six hundred years B.C. to this land fulfilling this patriarchal promise."

 

Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 576: "The Book of Mormon chronicles the rise and fall of two mighty civilizations in America that failed to give heed to this decree, and thus met with destruction. The Book of Mormon declares that God deliberately kept the American continent hidden until the Holy Roman Empire had broken up and the various nations had established themselves as independent kingdoms. Keeping America hidden until this time was no accident."

 

Orson Pratt, January 2, 1859, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 33: "…[The Book of Mormon] professes to contain the history of part of the tribe of Joseph, who came out of the land of Jerusalem 600 years before Christ, and colonized the American continent. These Indian tribes are their descendants…"

 

 George Q. Cannon, July 21, 1867, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 19, pp. 202-03: "…But God, our Heavenly Father, reserved this – the land of promise – for the especial purpose of building up his kingdom in the latter days. As the 'Book of Mormon' informs us, it has been hid from the eyes of the generations of men for this purpose. If it had not been thus hidden the nations of the earth would have overrun the land until there would have been no foothold found for the establishment of the kingdom of God upon it. But the Lord concealed it, from the days of the flood, from the eyes of men, excepting those whom he led hither; as we are informed by the 'Book of Mormon' that no nation after the flood, knew anything about this land…"

 

Brigham Young, April 24, 1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 335: "Here is the Book of Mormon. We believe it contains the history of the Aborigines of our continent, just as the Old Testament contains the history of the Jewish nation…"

 

Orson Pratt, November 27, 1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, pp. 298-99: "…we have something tangible, something contained in the form of a revelation; it is not a mere verbal message by the voice of an angel, but an entire record, a sacred history of the western world, of one half of our globe, detailing the wars of the people of this continent, the same as the Jewish record contains the history of the wars and doings of the Jews of the eastern continent…"

 

Orson Pratt, November 15, 1874, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17, p. 274: "[The Book of Mormon] pretends to be a history of the coming of a small colony, two or three families, from the city of Jerusalem, led by the hand of the Lord. They built a ship by the command of the Lord, and were guided by his hand across the ocean; they landed on the western coast of South America, about six hundred years before Christ; and after that they worked their way up towards the narrow strip of land we call the Isthmus, and founded settlements and, finally, about fifty years before Christ, sent forth their colonies into the north wing of the continent, which we call North America, and in process of time the whole land became peopled and overspread with millions of people…"

 

George Q. Cannon, Conference Report, April 1898, p. 84: "…but through the long centuries that elapsed from the confusion of tongues at the Tower of Babel, when the inhabitants of the earth were scattered, until the time that Columbus, inspired of God, went from court to court, pleading with the governments of nations to give him the means to penetrate the ocean and find what he supposed was the Indies – during all that time the knowledge of this land was kept from all the nations of the earth…"

 

Anthony W. Ivins, Conference Report, April 1904, p. 55: "…Then came Moroni with the record contained in the Book of Mormon, lifting the veil from off this great continent of ours, and giving to us the key by which the mysteries of these great ruins in Mexico, Central America and Northern South America (many of which I have seen myself) may be unlocked, and by which the hand-dealings of God with the mighty peoples who have occupied the American continent are known…"

 

Orson F. Whitney, Conference Report, October 1916, p. 52: "…An angel reveals the hidden past of the American continent – the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of the gospel, a history of the Americas in prehistoric times, and a prophecy of their wondrous future…"

 

Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report, October 1959, pp. 57-58, 60: "The Lord calls you 'Lamanites,' a name which has a pleasant ring, for many of the grandest people ever to live upon the earth were so called. In a limited sense, the name signifies the descendants of Laman and Lemuel, sons of your first American parent, Lehi; but you undoubtedly possess also the blood of the other sons, Sam, Nephi, and Jacob. And you likely have some Jewish blood from Mulek, son of Zedekiah, king of Judah… When your prophet Lehi led you out of Jerusalem about 600 years B.C., you brought with you the best of the culture of Egypt and Palestine and of the then known world… When Columbus came, your tribes had covered the islands of the Pacific and the Americas from Tierra del Fuego to Point Barrow…"

 

A. Theodore Tuttle, Conference Report, April 1965, p. 30: "The Book of Mormon is the word of God and is a record of his ministry among the ancestors of these Indians. Columbus named them Indians. He thought he had discovered the Indies. In reality they are Lamanites… Today these people, whose ancestors saw the Risen Christ, number in the millions. They range from Canada to la Tierra del Fuego. In North America many dwell on reservations. Thousands are scattered throughout Mexico and Central America. In South America they live in the jungle and on the tops of the Andes. The blood of this chosen people flows in the veins of many of those who live south of the Rio Grande."