Posted on 04/10/2024 5:22:37 PM PDT by grumpa
With a measure of teeth gnashing, and years of study—I became convinced that the preterist view of eschatology is the correct one. Here are some reasons why.
1. I could no longer ignore, in good conscience, the over 100 time-statements in the New Testament that limit fulfillment of the prophesied events to the lifetimes of the New Testament writers. (There really are over 100 of them.) Preterism 101
2. I looked up every mention in the New Testament of the “last days,” “end,” or “end times” and found that all 19 such mentions are consistent. Without exception, the writers of the New Testament wrote that THEY were living in the last days. So, unless they were false teachers, the last days had to be the end of the old covenant world―not the end of the physical universe. While the new covenant began at the cross, the old covenant ended in finality in AD 70 when the temple was destroyed (Hebrews 8:13).
3. I realized that I was ignorant about what happened in Jerusalem in AD 70―and the theological significance of these events, especially surrounding the destruction of the temple and the sacrificial and priestly systems.
4. I heard some Christians, including pastors, say that “The disciples expected Jesus to return in their lifetimes, but they were simply wrong.” Knowing that the disciples got their views from Jesus himself, and believing in the inerrancy of the Bible, I cannot accept that they were wrong. But it was either they were wrong, or else Christians have misunderstood what the writers meant by Jesus’ Parousia. At least some of the passages about the timing of the Second Coming must have been about Jesus “coming in judgment” against apostate old covenant Israel in AD 70, much like YHWH “came in judgment” against nations in the Old Testament―as preterists teach. That answers the skeptics who said Jesus was a false teacher.
5. I realized that if Jesus and his disciples were wrong about the timing of fulfillment of the prophetic events, the charges against Christianity concerning Jesus being a false teacher would be true. The preterist view is the only one that answers the critics’ charges. Jesus kept his word. He was not a false prophet. There is no need to make excuses for Him or gloss over passages that don’t fit your presuppositions from the echo-chamber.
6. I was interested to discover that Jesus, as well as his disciples, stated that virtually all OLD TESTAMENT prophecy would be completed in their literal generation—that is, the first century (Luke 21:22; Acts 3:24).
7. It became excruciatingly clear that many high-profile preachers, especially dispensationalists, have made glaringly false predictions about the rapture, Second Coming, and the end of the world. These charlatans (yes, that’s a strong but deserved charge) include Hal Lindsey, Edgar Whisenant, Benny Hinn, Grant Jeffrey, Jerry Falwell, John Walvoord, Harold Camping, Perry Stone, etc., etc. These men added to false predictions by Christians for 2000 years, making a continuous mockery of Christianity. Something has been very wrong about prophecy. False Prophets
8. I noticed that Christians tend to interpret the Bible through the lens of the daily news events (“newspaper eschatology”)—and have accordingly been making false and embarrassing predictions about the end of the world for 2,000 years. The preterist view restores credibility to Christianity. If they would be reading through the lens of the original audience instead, they would get a different picture.
9. I have heard Christians argue that language such as “moon turning to blood,” “coming on clouds,” “make the heavens tremble,” etc. should be understood literally. I was always skeptical about literalizing these phrases, and my closer investigation revealed that my skepticism was warranted. Such phrases are typical non-literal Hebraic apocalyptic language to describe God’s intervention (usually judgment) on nations in history. Apocalyptic Language
10. I learned that over 130 competent scholars have been identified as teaching that Revelation was written prior to AD 70, and that Revelation is mostly about the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple during the Jewish-Roman War of AD 66-70. Recommended book: Before Jerusalem Fell by Kenneth Gentry.
11. I discovered that there are over 30 passages in Revelation that (a) demand fulfillment soon after being penned, and (b) Revelation does not introduce new concepts, but rather connects the events described there with the same ones mentioned elsewhere in the Bible. Revelation Theme
12. I noticed that objections to preterism are shallow, disjointed, biased, arbitrary, and inconsistent. Objectors are willfully blind about key passages and mostly regurgitate things they have heard from people who have not really studied the issue either. I particularly noticed that my preterist posts on Christian websites were mostly answered with anger and snark, with very little actual substantive biblical exegesis. I find this quite telling.
13. Bible teachers to whom I had been listening could not give meaningful answers to my challenging questions about prophecy. Worse, they seemed less interested in truth, and more interested in defending a presumptive position. I wanted to follow the Shepherd, not the sheep. I wanted to defend God’s Word, not an institution or creed.
14. I was really surprised at how professing conservative Christians take such pains to explain away the obvious in the Bible. They can twist Scripture and think they are doing the Bible a favor. For example, Jesus said “Truly, I say to you, THIS GENERATION will not pass away until all these things take place.” We can be sure that “this generation” means the generation to whom Jesus was speaking (and not some distant generation). Why? Because every other mention of “this generation” in the New Testament is clearly about the first-century generation. Study more about Scripture Twisting in this article:
(Share this with your friends to start a good discussion about eschatology!)
The Great White Throne judgment occurs after Satan is defeated.
—> You’d think with such an important event as this the Early Church Fathers might have made mention of this.
Or any historian.
Or Scripture…
A second Second Coming does not make sense to me either
, but that’s the view of many partial preterists
According to the OP this has already happened.
>>You’re saying the biggest anticipated event in all of human history....the Second Coming of Christ....has already happened??<<
Jesus said in several ways that he would return within his generation.
Mr. Kalamata
Because you hate Jews?
Because you think God is a liar?
Because you don’t want Prophecy to be fulfilled?
I can go on....
Hey....you held up Acts 1:9-11.
And that makes even less sense for a partial preterist to hold to this and not a full preterist.
In either case, you're understanding of events is completely off.
And no one recorded this....no one.
>>The Great White Throne judgment occurs after Satan is defeated.
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Just noting that this post (and subsequent posts on this particular thread) are written by my husband, Mr. K.
Thank you,
Mrs. K
I have noticed over the past several years and especially lately that the scoffers who scoff at Prophecy are out in full force - doubling down.
Satan really hates Prophecy because it spells his doom.
He’ll use even “Christians” to try to lie and debunk myths about it. Notice this?
I do...
I'd like to read those verses...
Early Christians and Preterism.
The best source is books by Francis Gumerlock, whose research has found that Preterism was part of the discussion among early Christians, and B
may have been the dominant view.
This sounds like a form of idealism or historicism. The idea that Revelation deals with either a long unfolding history or represents multiple repeating events through the Church Age.
“Early Christians” were wrong about many things.
That they had a dominant view is judged by Scripture alone.
>>>>10‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Rev 3:10.<<<<
>>Exegete this passage please.<<
The word “world” (oikoumene) is the inhabited world at that time, or more so the Roman Empire (see Luke 2:1). The word “earth” (ge) could also mean land, which without qualifiers, means the land of Israel. So, it should read:
“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of [trial,] which [is about to] come upon [the Roman Empire,] to try them that dwell upon the [earth, or land of Israel.]” — Rev 3:10
Mr. Kalamata
I reckon’ we’re all going to find out the truth sooner or later, ain’t we?
>>According to the OP this has already happened.<<
I disagree with full preterism. I believe the thousand-year reign has been fulfilled, Satan has been released from his prison and he is deceiving the whole world.
Mr. Kalamata
Consider the following biblical references
Isaiah 55:8-9. New International Version. 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,”.
Matthew 24:36-44 No One Knows That Day and Hour
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Those two pasages clearly state that no one can know when except the Father.
Jesus was concerned about fulfilling the prophecies of the Old Testament.
Or, the whole world means just that....the entire world. Context will be the key in understanding this passage and others.
NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR. This passage is in Matthew’s version of the Olivet Discourse. The context is the end of the age (Matthew 24:3) in which Jesus promised to return in judgment to punish Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 23:29-39; 24:29-34) and destroy the temple (Matthew 24:2). In Luke’s version of the Olivet Discourse we see Jesus telling his disciples that this was imminent when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies (Luke 21:20-24). Then it would be “about to happen” (Luke 21:36, Young’s Literal Translation). These prophecies were fulfilled in AD 70.
Most Christians don’t know their Old Testament well enough to know that Jesus’ is alluding to a similar statement in Zechariah 14:7 prophesying a day known only to the Lord when Jerusalem would be destroyed (Zechariah 14:2).
Just prior to the “no one knows the day or the hour” in Matthew 24:36, Jesus said “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (verse 34). Does verse 36 completely negate verse 34? Some Christians say that Jesus begins speaking about something different in verse 36, but that view is completely untenable for several reasons. But very simply, there is no discernible break in the content, especially when you compare Matthew 24 with Luke 17 which covers the same material but in a different order. But notice that in verse 36 Jesus refers back to what he just said with the reference “But concerning that day. . . .” This phrase clearly tells us that the flow is continuous.
We should reconcile verses 34 and 36 rather than separate them. Here’s an analogy. When a woman is pregnant, we do not know the day or the hour she will give birth, but we do know the window of time. So, what Jesus was teaching can be summarized thusly: “I cannot tell you the day or the hour when all these things will take place, but I assure you that they will happen in this generation, before some now living have died.”
Of course, that brings up the question, what does “this generation” mean. It clearly means what it says—the generation of those then living in the first century. No serious reader can doubt this as Jesus just prior specifically laid the object of his wrath upon the scribes and Pharisees to whom he was speaking in Matthew 23, where we also see the phrase “this generation” (Mathew 23:36). The phrase “this generation” is used several times in the New Testament and it clearly ALWAYS means the contemporaries of Jesus (Matthew 11:16; 12:38-45; Mark 8:12; 8:38-9:1; 13:30; Luke 7:31; 11:29-32, 49-51; 17:25). In addition, using Scripture to interpret Scripture, Jesus said the same thing in other ways, such as “some standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom” (Matthew 16:28; see also Matthew 10:23; 26:64; Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-20).
No doubt your next objection will be this: “Well, we know that Jesus has not returned, so some of this is yet to be fulfilled.” ANSWER: You have just violated a law of logic called “begging the question” or “circular reasoning,” which is assuming something to be true that one is trying to prove to be true. More importantly, you have misunderstood what Jesus was predicting. He was predicting a divine presence in judgment, just like Yahweh did numerous times in the Old Testament. He was not, at least in these passages, predicting a bodily return to earth, but rather a divine coming in judgment.
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