When Churches Dismiss Bible Prophecy… They Do So To Their Own Detriment

Although prophecy constitutes almost one-third of the Bible, its importance is constantly downplayed by those who dismiss it as having no practical significance or by those who object to it on the grounds that it is a “fad” that takes people’s eyes off Jesus.

Such cavalier dismissals of Bible prophecy fly in the face of scriptures like Revelation 19:10 which says that “the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Thus, if prophecy is properly taught, there is no reason for it to divert anyone’s attention away from Jesus. In fact, it should serve to emphasize the centrality of Jesus.

Is prophecy practical? Consider that all the New Testament writers testify to the fact that living with the anticipation of the Lord’s return will motivate holy living. What could be more practical than that? Here’s the way the Apostle John put it:

1 John 3: 2-3 KJV – “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”

Prophecy does not have to be either faddish, other-worldly, or impractical if taught properly. Nor does it have to be a playground for fanatics. It can and should be green pastures for disciples.

Reasons for Study There are many reasons why all believers should be interested in studying Bible prophecy. Some of the more important ones are listed below:

1) The Quantity — One-fourth to one-third of the Bible is prophetic in nature. In the Old Testament, this includes the Psalms, the Major and Minor Prophets, and many passages in the historical books. In the New Testament, entire books like 1 & 2 Thessalonians and Revelation are devoted to prophecy, as are major passages like Matthew 24 and 1 Peter 3. To ignore Bible prophecy is to ignore a significant portion of God’s Word, and we are told in 2 Timothy 3:16 that “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness” — and that certainly includes Bible prophecy.

2) The Uniqueness — No other book in the world contains fulfilled prophecies. This includes the sayings of Buddha and Confucius, the Koran, the Hindu Vedras, and the Book of Mormon. And it certainly includes the ridiculous nonsensical quatrains of Nostradamas. In contrast, the Bible contains hundreds of specific prophecies that have already been fulfilled — prophecies about towns, cities, nations, empires, and political leaders, as well as prophecies about the Messiah. Consider, for example, the prophecy in the book of Isaiah that a man named Cyrus would be the one who would release the children of Israel from Babylonian captivity (Isaiah 44:28). And that is exactly what happened 142 years later (Ezra 1:1-3).

3) Validator of Scripture — Fulfilled prophecy is one of the best evidences I know of that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. As I stated above, the Bible contains hundreds of fulfilled secular prophecies pertaining to cities, nations, empires, and individuals. Isaiah prophesied that Babylon would fall to the Medes and Persians (Isaiah 13:17-20). Jeremiah predicted the Babylonian captivity of the Jews would last 70 years (Jeremiah 25:11-12). Daniel outlined in advance the precise order of four great Gentile empires (Daniel 2 and 7). The destruction of both Judah and Israel was foretold by Moses (Deuteronomy 28 and 29). In the New Testament, Jesus predicted the complete destruction of Jerusalem 40 years before it actually occurred (Luke 21:6).

4) Validator of Jesus — The prophetic scriptures validate Jesus as who He said He was — namely, God in the flesh. The Bible contains more than 300 prophecies about the First Coming of Jesus, but some of these are repetitive. There are actually 109 separate and distinct prophecies concerning the First Coming, and all of them were literally fulfilled. Every aspect of the life of Jesus was prophesied — the place of His birth, the nature of His birth, the quality of His ministry, the purpose of His life, and the agony of His death. Consider, for example, the prophecy in Psalm 22:16 that the Messiah’s hands and feet would be pierced. That prophecy was written by David about a thousand years before the birth of Jesus. It was written at a time when the only form of capital punishment among the Jewish people consisted of stoning. The literal fulfillment of so many prophecies in the life of one individual transcends any mere coincidence and serves to validate that Jesus was who He said He was — the divine Son of God.

5) Revealer of the Future — Prophecy serves to tell us some things that God wants us to know about the future (Deuteronomy 29:29 and Amos 3:7). God does not want us to know everything about the future, but there are some things we must know if we are to have a dynamic hope. Thus, prophecy assures us that Jesus is coming back, that He will resurrect us, and that He will take us to live forever with Him and God the Father. In this regard, Peter likens prophecy to “a lamp shining in a dark place” (2 Peter 1:19). Paul makes the same point in 1 Corinthians, chapter 2. He begins by observing that “no eye has seen, no ear has heard, nor has the mind of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love Him.” But in the next verse Paul says those things have been revealed to us by God through His Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-10).

6) Tool of Evangelism — Prophecy can be used as a very effective tool of evangelism, as illustrated in the story of Philip and the Eunuch (Acts 8:26ff). Philip used Isaiah’s great suffering lamb passage (Isaiah 53) to teach that Jesus is the Lamb who was slain for the sins of the world. Matthew and Peter both used fulfilled prophecy in the life of Jesus as one of their basic evangelistic tools. In fact, Peter referred to prophecy constantly in his first gospel sermon on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-39). He preached that Jesus had been crucified and resurrected in fulfillment of Hebrew prophecies. Later, Peter referred to fulfilled prophecy as one of the greatest evidences that Jesus was truly the Son of God (2 Peter 1:16-19).

7) Tool of Moral Teaching — People often overlook the fact that the Hebrew prophets were forthtellers as well as foretellers. In fact, the prophets spent most of their time using God’s Word to spotlight societal problems. They called their listeners to repentance, true worship, justice, and personal holiness. One of the great recurring themes of the prophets is that “obedience is better than sacrifice” (1 Samuel 15:22 and Hosea 6:6). That statement means that in God’s eyes, obedience to His commands is more important than outward religious practices such as offering sacrifices. Prophecy is thus a great repository of moral teaching, and those moral principles are still relevant today. (See Amos 5:21-24; Micah 6:8; and Isaiah 58:3-9.)

8) Generator of Spiritual Growth — Prophetic knowledge encourages patient waiting (James 5:7-8); provokes earnest watching (Matthew 24:36,42); inspires dedicated work (2 Timothy 4:7-8); and enhances our hope (Titus 2:11-14). The result is holy living. Paul exhorts us to “behave properly as in the day,” because the time is at hand when the Lord will return (Romans 13:12-13). Likewise, Peter calls us to gird up our minds and be sober and holy as we look forward to the revelation of Jesus (1 Peter 1:13-15).

9) Understanding of Current Events — The Bible contains detailed prophecies about the end times we are living in, and there is just no way to fully understand much of what is happening today apart from those prophecies. Three characteristics of our day and time immediately come to mind: the intensifying decay of society, the growing apostasy in the Church, and the escalating crisis in the Middle East. All three of these situations are prophesied in detail in the Bible. We are told that society will become as violent and immoral as it was in the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37-39); that the Church will be assaulted with “doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1); and that all the nations of the world will come against Israel over the issue of who will control Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:23).

10) Signifier of the Season — One of the most exciting reasons for studying Bible prophecy is that it provides very definite signs that we are to watch for which will signify the season of the Lord’s return. It is true that we cannot know the date, but the Bible makes it clear that we can know the season if we are aware of the signs that we are to look for. The Apostle Paul made this point in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 when he wrote:

1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 KJV – “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”

According to this passage, Jesus is coming like “a thief in the night” for the world, but those of us who are “sons of light” — that is, those of us who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit — should not be surprised when the Lord returns, because God’s Word gives us signs to watch for.

Paul made the same point again in Hebrews 10:25 where he admonished believers to not forsake the assembling of the saints, especially “as you see the day drawing near.” What day? He defines it in verse 27 as the day of judgment. So, Paul is making the point here that there are signs we can watch for that will clearly identify the fact that we are living in the season of the Lord’s return.

Jesus made the same point in His Olivet Discourse as recorded in Matthew 24. After specifying many end time signs, He said, “when you see all these things, recognize that He [Jesus] is near, right at the door” (Matthew 24:33).

Spiritual Food God’s Prophetic Word is food for our spiritual growth. We need to take it off the shelf, open it up, and feast upon it — and we need to do so with believing hearts.

The book of Revelation promises blessings to those who read it (or hear it read) and who obey it (Revelation 1:3). It is the only book of the Bible to promise such a specific blessing, but all God’s Word is designed to bless us spiritually (Psalm 119), and that includes the Prophetic Word.

Bible prophecy, properly taught, can literally transform a person and a congregation. This will happen if the person or congregation can be convinced of two things regarding prophecy: 1) Jesus is returning, and 2) His return could occur any moment.

Regarding the first point, most Christians believe with their minds that Jesus is returning, but they do not believe with their hearts, and therefore their belief has no impact on their behavior. Regarding the second point, most Christians are unaware that the return of Jesus will be in two stages — first, the Rapture, and then the Second Coming. Because they know little or nothing about the Rapture, they have no understanding that the Lord could truly return at any moment. They believe that many prophecies — like the preaching of the Gospel to the whole world — must be fulfilled before the Lord can return, when the truth of the matter is that there is not one prophecy that must be fulfilled for the Rapture to occur.

Again, if a person or congregation can truly be convinced that Jesus is returning any moment, they will be transformed because they will be motivated to share the Gospel with others and to commit their lives to holiness. A commitment to evangelism and holiness! What more could a pastor hope for?

Bible prophecy does not just relate to the future. It has an important spiritual relevance to the way we live our lives in the present.

Regarding the second point, most Christians are unaware that the return of Jesus will be in two stages — first, the Rapture, and then the Second Coming.

There is no writing in the Biblical books nor in Apostolic Tradition that holds to a "two stage return of Jesus" -- that is a fundamentally un-Christian statement of the pre-tribulation rapturists

Let's prove the rapture wrong - here are the reasons why the pre-tribulation rapture 19th century philosophy is wrong:

1 Corinthians 15:20-26

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

The order is clear:
First, Christ was raised bodily from the dead. This event stands as a prophecy concerning our own personal future. Christ was "the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep"

Second, Christians will be raised from the dead.

Third, "the end" comes
That is the order - not a word about any kind of rapture. If St. Paul had believed int he rapturist system, this would have presented a perfect passage to describe it, but there is not even a HINT of a secret rapture in 1 Corinthians - there is ONE resurrection mentioned (not two) and onlyone coming "event" (not two , or in two stages)/
Immediately after this coming, (not in 7 or 1007 or 2007 years later), "the end" arrives, at which time Christ "delivers the Kingdom to God"

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 -

51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[a]
Rapturinos say this describes the secret rapture, but there is NOTHING in this text that cannot be understood perfectly wel as happening at the second coming --
St. Paul tellsus that not all Christians will die, but that "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.. we shall all be changed" -- this is an event that will occur at the second coming of our Lord and Savior
Note that this is the "last trumpet" - we read in 1 Corinthians 15:26 that these are FINAL - no "two stages"

1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:3

Believers Who Have Died 13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
The word St. Paul uses for meeting the Lord "in the air" is aer the Greek word for atmosphere
This SAME word is used in Ephesians 2:2
And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
yet no one would claim that, because of this word, Satan wouldn't influence people on the earth
A consistent rapturist reading of this wod here would mean that only airplane passengers are influenced by Satan's power
NO, when Christ returns to the earth's atmosphere, He has returned to earth
Rapturists trying to point to the "coming in the clouds" -- but this ignores the symbol of divinity in the clouds
The Bible uses three Greek words interchangeably
parousia - coming
epiphaneia appearing
apokalupsis revelation
Rapturists think that there is a different usage for each, but that is false - parousia is not used just for some fake "rapture" and the others for the 2nd coming
Paul doesn't mention this 19th century rapture idea as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final Eschaton
In the apocalypse, that is referred to as the battle with Gog and Magog, Christians will participate in that confrontation because there will be no secret rapture before it. Our comfort rests in Him who will emerge from that confrontation as the Victor.
THAT is the reassurance Paul offers, not the promise of an escape from the great Tribulation.
And very clearly Jesus DID teach that "as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man" (Matt 24:27). St Paul taught in 1 thessalonians 4:16 that "the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a cry of comman, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God"
BOTH passages speak of the second advent as unmistakably obvious. There is nothing secret about lightning, cries of command, angel calls or trumpets

2 Thessalonians 2

In 2 Thessalonians, Paul is writing shortly before the Jewish-Roman War begins in 67 AD
[1] And we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him: [2] That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, [4] Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God. [5] Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

[6] And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, [9] Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders, [10] And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:
The REVOLT - the Jewish revolt in 67 AD. The Man of Sin - Nero. And then Nero's statue in the temple.
Rapturists make the false claim that Christians had been secretly raptured 3.5 years before the Temple worship was corrupted
But this is deceptive and FALSE. Paul wrote Thessalonians to encourage a group of Christians who were afraid they had been "left behind" yet he explicitly does NOT speak of the "blessed hope of the rapture" to comfort the worried Thessalonians. NOWHERE in this passage is there even a message of the rapture. In this passage the rapture is missing in action.
The reason Paul does not mention the rapture as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final eschaton

roving I was looking for a church. I went to all the local churches in my area websites to read their sermons Not one of them preached prophecy. It was all rainbows and bubble gum.

That is unfortunate -- as if you refer to today's readings, roving, we find clear prophecy preached: Freerepublic article

First reading 1 Kings 11:4-13 ©
For the sake of my servant David, I will leave you one tribe
When Solomon grew old his wives swayed his heart to other gods; and his heart was not wholly with the Lord his God as his father David’s had been. Solomon became a follower of Astarte, the goddess of the Sidonians, and of Milcom, the Ammonite abomination. He did what was displeasing to the Lord, and was not a wholehearted follower of the Lord, as his father David had been. Then it was that Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the god of Moab on the mountain to the east of Jerusalem, and to Milcom the god of the Ammonites. He did the same for all his foreign wives, who offered incense and sacrifice to their gods.
The Lord was angry with Solomon because his heart had turned from the Lord the God of Israel who had twice appeared to him and who had then forbidden him to follow other gods; but he did not carry out the Lord’s order. The Lord therefore said to Solomon, ‘Since you behave like this and do not keep my covenant or the laws I laid down for you, I will most surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your servants. For your father David’s sake, however, I will not do this during your lifetime, but will tear it out of your son’s hands. Even so, I will not tear the whole kingdom from him. For the sake of my servant David, and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen, I will leave your son one tribe.’
Responsorial Psalm
Psalm 105(106):3-4,35-37,40 ©
O Lord, remember me out of the love you have for your people.
They are happy who do what is right,
who at all times do what is just.
O Lord, remember me
out of the love you have for your people.
O Lord, remember me out of the love you have for your people.
But instead they mingled with the nations
and learned to act as they did.
They worshipped the idols of the nations
and these became a snare to entrap them.
O Lord, remember me out of the love you have for your people.
They even offered their own sons
and their daughters in sacrifice to demons,
till his anger blazed against his people;
he was filled with horror at his chosen ones.
O Lord, remember me out of the love you have for your people.
Gospel Acclamation Ps144:13
Alleluia, alleluia!
The Lord is faithful in all his words
and loving in all his deeds.
Alleluia!
Or: Jm1:21
Alleluia, alleluia!
Accept and submit to the word
which has been planted in you
and can save your souls.
Alleluia!
Gospel Mark 7:24-30 ©
The astuteness of the Syro-Phoenician woman
Jesus left Gennesaret and set out for the territory of Tyre. There he went into a house and did not want anyone to know he was there, but he could not pass unrecognised. A woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him straightaway and came and fell at his feet. Now the woman was a pagan, by birth a Syrophoenician, and she begged him to cast the devil out of her daughter. And he said to her, ‘The children should be fed first, because it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the house-dogs.’ But she spoke up: ‘Ah yes, sir,’ she replied ‘but the house-dogs under the table can eat the children’s scraps.’ And he said to her, ‘For saying this, you may go home happy: the devil has gone out of your daughter.’ So she went off to her home and found the child lying on the bed and the devil gone.

Responsorial Psalm
Psalm 105(106):3-4,35-37,40 ©

Remember the promise of the 1980s that when Communism falls and the “Ten Toes” reunite? Communism fell and we are still waiting. I have received several books warning us to prepare as the End Times were just a few years ahead. One I received in 1978, another in 1993. Still here.

good points

Darby invented the 19th century rapture philosophy

In 1830 Darby met fifteen-year-old Mararet MacDonald, who claimed to have had a private revelation of a secret rapture that would occur shortly

flash alert -- the "secret rapture" didn't occur in 1830 nor in 1870 nor in 1914 nor in 2012 -- but the gullible who persist in believing in the 19thc century creation of secret pre-Trib rapture keep falling for it

Let's go through all of the hilarious rapture fails

Even the great Billy Graham fell for it
- In a 1950 issue of US News and World reportGraham stated "Two years and it's all going to be over." Flash alert: we're past 1952 and still going
- April 1984 Graham proclaimed, "Anybody who's anybody believes that global war is imminent"
- 1995 "When will the end be?.... Every indication is that it will be sooner than we think
Hal lindsey in 1970 The late great planet earth -- with the Rapture idea that the rapture was due before the end of the 1980s - FAIL
1978 Chuck Smith, Evangelical pastor wrote "The Lord is coming before the end of 1981" -- errr.. another fail
Gary Wilburn in Christianity todayin 1979 wrote "The world must end within one generation from the birth of the state of Israel. Any opinion of world affairs that does not dovetail with this prophecy is dismissed" -- Rapturists claim that this means the rapture must occur within forty years of the founding of Israel in 1948 -- FAIL. The year 1988 came and went
in 1988, Edgar Whisenat published and distributed his pamphlet 88 reasons why the rapture will be in 1988 -- He specified September as the month in which Christ would return -- bzzz. RAPTURE-FAIL again.
But the rapture didn't occur in 1988 so Whisenant wrote 89 reasons why the rapture will be in 1989
Then rapture-fails sorry rapturists claim that this 40 year should be counted from 1967 - RAPTURE-FAIL again as 2007 came and went.
Jerry Falwell in 1989 sent out a mass mailing In just a few days we will enter what will be the final decade!
On december 19, 1994, US News and world report stated that 1 in 5 Americans believed the world would end within a few years!

RAPTURE-FAIL once more
Pat Robertson on May 12, 1994 We are talking about the final age of humankind right now... Please call and make a pledge... your dollars may not do any good in give years or so"

Then you got the Rapture-fails of the Left Behind series
the Rapture fail of the "The Bible Code" that all life would be wiped out when a comet crashed into the earth in 2012 -- err.. that didn't happen, another rapture fail

Net - net, this fake 19th century philosophy has been shown to be continuously failing and still rapturists follow it - adding on a few more years each time they fail

The Olivet discourse then talks about the 8 signs that Jesus said would lead to the Temple's destruction that were important for the Apostles to recognize

Sign 1: false messiahs - Matt 24:4-5 -- Up to 70 AD there were several supposed messiahs in Judea who led armies against the legions. They were killed with their followers. At the time of the Jewish captivity, there were many leaders who declared themselves to be Christs (Messiahs), so that while the Romans were actually besiegin them, there were three factions within - and Josephus mentions them as "Imposters and deceivers persuaded the multitude to follow them into the wilderness, and pretended that they would exhibit manifest wonders and signs that should be performed by the providence of God. And many that were prevailed on by them suffered the punishments of their folly""
Sign 2: Wars You will hear of wars and rumors of wars Matt 24:6 - there was civil war in Rome itself
Sign 3: famines - during the war the Jews in Jerusalem underwent a severe famine - St. Paul wrote about it in his letter to the Corinthians (2 Cor 8)
Sign 4: earthquakes erupted frequently - the city of Colossae was destroyed in an earthquake in the 50s. And Pompeii had one in 63 AD (the same Pompeii that was destroyed by volcano in 79 AD)
sign 5: persecution - Matthew 24:9 - Nero's persecution killed Peter and Paul
Sign 6: Apostasy - Matthew 24:10-12 - this is reflected in Revelations 2 about the Nicolaitians
Sign 7 - the gospel worldwide. What did Paul say in Rom 1:8? First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world and in Col 1:5-6 First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world in Paul's mind there was no doubt that the gospel had gone out into the whole world Clement wrote in 73 AD that Peter and Paul had been martyred, but not before they "taught righteousness to the whole world, and they came to the extreme limit of the west" -- the word used for "world" is oikoumene - which specifically means the civilized world i.e. the Roman Empire - the Olivet discourse does not use the world "Kosmos" that designates the entire earth.

Kosmos in Matt 24:21 From the beginning of the world (kosmos) until now"
Matthew 24:14
This gospel of the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come
Yet, Paul states that in his lifetime, the Faith of those in the Church in Rome First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. - Romans 1:8
And in Colossians 1:5-6 Paul wrote
5 the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.
There was no doubt in Paul's mind that the gospel had gone out into the whole world
This is also what the early Christians wrote about:
- Clement of Rome in 95 AD wrote that Peter and Paul had been martyred but not before they"taught righteousness to the WHOLE world, and they came to the extreme limit of the west"
  Since both Peter and Paul were martyred before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, well
- Justin Martyr in 120 AD wrote that from Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the world the word of God
- Eusebius even connected this to Jerusalem's destruction writing that the teaching of the new covenant was borne to all the nations and then the Romans besieged Jerusalem and destroyed it and the Temple
the word used for "world" is oikoumene - which specifically means the civilized world i.e. the Roman Empire - the Olivet discourse does not use the world "Kosmos" that designates the entire earth.

Kosmos in Matt 24:21 From the beginning of the world (kosmos) until now"
Sign 8: Daniel's desolating sacrilege. Matt 24:15-19. Note that the Sanhedrin believed that this had been fulfilled in 167 BC, but that did not meet Daniel's prophecy of 3.5 years
Jesus then mentions in 24:21 the Great Tribulation - which is for the Jesus-movement Jews.

There has never been, nor will there ever be anything rivaling it. The Church was close to being smothered in its cradle if Nero continued and the Jerusalem Christians had not escaped to Pella - this was a tiny community, primarily Jewish and was attacked by both the Roman authorities AND the Jewish authorities. That WAS the great tribulation

Just mormonthoughts Yes, for you Amos 8. Whole chapter, but in particular verse 11.. The Word describes who the players are.. you showed you are clueless.

Typical Mormon response citing Amos 8:11-14 trying to frame that there was a complete apostasy immediately after the apostles.

In contrast, you, Just mormontyhoughts forget that the Prophet Amos prophesied in Israel ca. 785 BC. Among other things, he warned of the coming destruction of Israel that would, in fact, occur in 721 BC because of her idolatry (see chapters six and seven). Amos 8:11-14 reads:

“Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord God, “when I will send a famine on the land; not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord. They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the Lord, but they shall not find it.”

This text speaks of an apostasy in ancient Israel, not after the death of the last apostle in the New Testament.

But even this apostasy was not total; it does not qualify to be the apostasy Mormons or you, Just mormonthoughts, claim it to be. In the very next chapter—9:8-10—Amos makes this very clear.

“Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from the surface of the ground; except that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob,” says the Lord. “For lo, I will command, and shake the house of Israel among all the nations as one shakes with a sieve, but no pebble shall fall to the ground. All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, who say, ‘Evil shall not overtake or meet us.’”

There were many times in Old Testament salvation history when priests and prophets were corrupt (cf. Lam. 4:13, Ez. 22:22-26, Zeph. 1:4, Mic. 3:5), prophets had no vision from the Lord, prophesied falsely (cf. Lam. 2:14, Jer. 23:26-31), or at times there were no prophets at all (cf. Ps.74:9). Apostasies were frequent in the Old Testament, but never total.

When one examines the entire Old Testament, one can readily see that in the midst of good times and bad—times of faithlessness and faithfulness—there was one constant: The existence of the High Priesthood and a God-ordained hierarchy as detailed in Exodus 28 and Deuteronomy 17. It was God himself who established and gave authority to this hierarchy in order to guide the children of Israel. The High Priest, or those to whom the High Priest delegated authority, had the power to deliver the oracle of God to His people. Deuteronomy 17:8-12 is an example of the divine origin of this historical fact.

You mormons, Just mthoughts, would then talk about 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition.

St. Paul used the Greek word apostasia in verse three—translated as “the rebellion”—to describe it. He declared this apostasy must first come before Jesus would come again. And after all, did not the Jews themselves reject the Messiah and apostatize? Does this not at least demonstrate that an apostasy is possible?

First of all, not all of Israel apostatized. The apostles, Mary and the earliest disciples were mostly Jews so obviously not all in Israel fell away from God. And II Thessalonians never says, nor is there one shred of biblical evidence elsewhere to say, a total apostasy would ever happen. Apostasy, yes! But total apostasy, no! But even more important to the point is this: A total apostasy as taught by the LDS is not only never mentioned in Scripture, but it is impossible according to Scripture for at least three reasons.:

1. Old Testament prophecies concerning the New Covenant and the then future coming of the kingdom of God, the Church, describe it as perpetual and indefectible. For example, Daniel 7:13-14:
I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man (Jesus), and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed”
2. and the new Testament describes the Church as undefeatable as well
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo I am with you always, to the close of the age” (Mt. 28:19-20
…and of his kingdom there will be no end (Lk. 1:33).
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19
Finally
3. St. Paul uses most explicit terms in his letter to the Ephesians eliminating the possibility of a total apostasy. In Ephesians 1:22, he describes the Church as “[Christ’s] body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.” This Church, he goes on, is “built upon the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone” (2:20). Indeed, Paul describes the Church as being the instrument God has chosen so that “through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places” (3:10). Paul then reminds us, as we have already seen, this Church must have apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists and teachers (cf. 4:11). Why? “For the equipment of the saints… for building up the body of Christ… so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine…” (4:12-14)
According to St. Paul, God gave us the Church so that we may know with certainty the truths of the Faith. This is by no means the only reason for the existence of the Church, but it is a central reason. But most important to our purpose here, we need to consider Ephesians 3:20-21:
Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, to him be glory in the Church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
This Church that St. Paul is describing in Ephesians will be here to all generations (pasas tas geneas, “all the generations”) forever and ever. This biblical text eliminates the possibility of a total apostasy for even one generation, much less 1,800 years!

In John 3:4 Nicodemus does not use either Palon or Anothon, but rather Deuteron, meaning secondly or second. Here are the other places where it is used:

Matt 27:50 But Jesus cried out again (Palon) in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit.

Matt 27:51 51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (Anthon) to bottom. 31 The earth quaked, rocks were split, and

Mark 15:38 16 The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (above anthon) to bottom.

Luke 1:3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew (From their source anthon), to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus,

Then in John 3: 3 Jesus answered and said to him, Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 from above (Anthon).

John 3: 4 Nicodemus said to him, How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mothers womb and be born again, can he?

John 3:31 The one who comes from above (Anthon) is above (Anthon) all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all).

John 19:11 Jesus answered (him), You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above (Anthon). For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin.

John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four shares, a share for each soldier. They also took his tunic, but the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top (Anthon) down.

Acts 26:5 They have known about me from the start (Anthon) From the first), if they are willing to testify, that I have lived my life as a Pharisee, the strictest party of our religion.

Galatians 4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again (Palon) Untranslated word Anthon (anew) to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again (Palon)?

James 1: 17 all good giving and every perfect gift 9 is from above (Anthon), coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change.

James 3: 15 Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above (Anthon) but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.

James 3: 17 But the wisdom from above (Anthon) is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity.

All 12 verses with the Greek Translation Matt 27:50 But Jesus cried out again (Palon) in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit.(Jesus did not cry out from above, he cried out a second time)

Mat 27:50 o de ihsouv palin kraxav fwnh megalh afhken to pneuma

Matt 27:51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (Anothon) to bottom. 31 The earth quaked, rocks were split,(The veil was not torn again it was torn from top to bottom)

Mat 27:51 kai idou to katapetasma tou naou esxisqh ap eiv duo apo anwqen ewv katw eiv duo kai h gh eseisqh kai ai petrai esxisqhsan

Mark 15:38 16 The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (above Anothon)to bottom.

Mar 15:38 kai to katapetasma tou naou esxisqh eiv duo ap apo anwqen ewv katw

Luke 1:3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew (From their source Anothon), to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus,(This is the only verse that you could conceivably substitute Again, but the colloquial From their source makes better sense)

Luk 1:3 edoxe edoxen kamoi parhkolouqhkoti anwqen pasin akribwv kaqexhv soi grayai kratiste qeofile

John 3: 3 Jesus answered and said to him, Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above (Anothon).(Verse in contention, no comment required)

Joh 3:3 apekriqh o ihsouv kai eipen autw amhn amhn legw soi ean mh tiv gennhqh anwqen ou dunatai idein thn basileian tou qeou

John 3: 4 Nicodemus said to him, How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mothers womb and be born again, can he? (Here is where the Prots really put their foot in it). Nicodemus never says again (Palon) he says Secondly (Deuteron)

Joh 3:4 legei prov auton o o nikodhmov pwv dunatai anqrwpov gennhqhnai gerwn wn mh dunatai eiv thn koilian thv mhtrov autou deuteron eiselqein kai gennhqhnai

John 3:31 15 The one who comes from above (Anothon) is above (Apanow) all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all).Those that come again are again all, Makes no sense at all.

Joh 3:31 o anwqen erxomenov epanw pantwn estin o wn ek thv ghv ek thv ghv estin kai ek thv ghv lalei o ek tou ouranou erxomenov epanw epanw pantwn estin estin

John 19:11 Jesus answered (him), You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above (Anothon). For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin. (Pilate was not given power again, he was given it from above, God allowed him to have power)

Joh 19:11 apekriqh autw o ihsouv ouk eixev exousian oudemian kat emou oudemian ei mh hn soi dedomenon soi anwqen dia touto o paradouv paradidouv me soi meizona amartian exei

Joh 19:23 oi oun stratiwtai ote estaurwsan ton ihsoun elabon ta imatia autou kai epoihsan tessara merh ekastw stratiwth merov kai ton xitwna hn de o xitwn arafov arrafov ek twn anwqen ufantov di olou

Acts 26:5 They have known about me from the start (Anothon, From the first), if they are willing to testify, that I have lived my life as a Pharisee, the strictest party of our religion. (They did not know about Paul again they new about him from the beginning)

Act 26:5 proginwskontev me anwqen ean qelwsi qelwsin marturein oti kata thn akribestathn airesin thv hmeterav qrhskeiav ezhsa farisaiov

Galatians 4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again (Palon) Untranslated word Anothon (anew) to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again (Palon)? (The phrase from above clearly does not fit here)

Gal 4:9 nun de gnontev qeon mallon de gnwsqentev upo qeou pwv epistrefete palin epi ta asqenh kai ptwxa stoixeia oiv palin anwqen douleuein qelete

James 1:17 all good giving and every perfect gift is from above (Anothon), coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change. (Is the gift coming again, no it is coming from God, who is From above)

Jas 1:17 pasa dosiv agaqh kai pan dwrhma teleion anwqen estin katabainon apo tou patrov twn fwtwn par w ouk eni parallagh h trophv aposkiasma

James 3:15 Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above (Anothon) but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. (See Previous)

Jas 3:15 ouk estin auth h sofia anwqen katerxomenh alla all epigeiov yuxikh daimoniwdhv

James 3:17 But the wisdom from above (Anothon) is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity. (Again the wisdom is from above, not again)

Jas 3:17 h de anwqen sofia prwton men agnh estin epeita eirhnikh epieikhv eupeiqhv mesth eleouv kai karpwn agaqwn adiakritov kai anupokritov

Conclusion: The only reasonable definition of the word Anthon is From above/ from the source or beginning.

There is a perfectly good word for again but, neither Nicodemus, or Jesus use that word, instead Nicodemus uses Deuteron.

Jesus attempts to build on the limited understanding of Nicodemus. Jesus stated that no one can see the kingdom of God without being born again/from above. Jesus plays on the double meaning in the Greek word "anothen" in his imperative of rebirth in order to see God's kingdom. Nicodemus is familiar with the notion of God as king, but the demand that he be "born again"/"from above" challenges his notion of what that kingdom might be. he double meaning is beyond his apparent comprehension. He asks a question showing he has neither grasped the full significance of the two meanings nor is he able to move outside the confines of his world: "How can a person be born again after having grown old?" One of the meanings of "anothen" lies on a temporal or horizontal axis (again) and the other on a spatial or vertical axis ("from above"). Nicodemus eliminates the meaning "from above" by using the word ("deuteron") that has only a temporal meaning: "a second time."

Jesus now explains what is meant by "anew" (of water) and "from above" (and the Spirit). He also provides insight into the meaning of "sight" of the kingdom by equating it to "entering" the kingdom. He says, "no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit." < p> After our Lord’s teaching that it is necessary for salvation to be born from above by water and the Spirit (John 3:1–21), “Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized” (John 3:22).

John 3:5 refers to baptismal regeneration.

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